Vuelta 2017 stage 12 Motril - Antequera 160,1 km

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DFA123 said:
Arredondo said:
wouterkaas said:
Aguirre said:
Froome is ridiculous bike handler, there is a long road to Madrid
Where do you base that on? As far as I know he rides very well and only crashed today due to the strange manoeuvers by the Katusha car.
Which strange manoeuvre?
This is one of the most bizarre excuses I've seen in a long time. Presumably someone on Eurosport or Twitter mentioned it, because it clearly wasn't responsible for the crash.
That's what I was thinking. I didn't see any strange manouver.
 
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hrotha said:
skippo12 said:
Yesterday was disappointing? Only one who tried to challenge Froome and could stay with him in the end. I agree that his Giro wasn`t great but in the Vuelta he has done everything people could have expected. He will allways lose seconds on the muritos but on the longer climbs he is among the top 3. The race is far from over and he is only 1 minute down.
You're talking about legs, I'm explicitly not talking about legs.
Well, like the old saying goes "Fatigue Makes Cowards of Us All"
 
Froome would not have fallen if the Katusha car had stayed at complete stop until Froome was complete past the corner, instead of moving forward while Froome was starting to take the corner
 
To be fair to Nibali and Aru, both of them have attacked a leaders misfortune at some point this year and got a lot of sh*t for it so they probably don't want to do it again. Aru especially took a lot of abuse.
 
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Valv.Piti said:
Brullnux said:
Valv.Piti said:
Brullnux said:
Valv.Piti said:
So the geniuses found out to work properly in the last kilometre. Could and should have been 30 seconds more, I expected more from the voodoo master in such situation.
The gap was never over 40 seconds, important to note.

Edit: still, disappointing. I'm guessing there was some confusion at first, but they only really started pushing after the 3 to go mark
Exactly. And it was 3 against 20, christ.... so its not unreasonable.
It was more 6 vs 3. Some Astana doms, Pellizotti and Oomen. Occasionally Nibali towards the end. A couple of others at most. Most of that group were dead wood
You don't get the point, do you? If they actually was working earlier, say just 10 of them.
It's never going to happen in a group of that size though. There are always going to be one or two 'leaders' who won't pull and then the other leaders aren't prepared to waste energy either.

I think it was the right decision in the end just to go with the domestiques. The leaders still gained 20 seconds, and used up hardly any energy on the descent. Gaining an extra 10 seconds or so is probably not worth it compared with the extra effort needed. Especially because if the gap increased much more, vehicles would have filled the gap and Froome could have held the gap comfortably by drafting and saving energy.
 
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Cance > TheRest said:
Actually the drivers in the Katusha car did everything in its might to avoid interfering with Froome's line. It braked to give Froome room to pass, when Froome tried to overtake it, coming into the corner.

I have no clue why some people blame the car. The misinformed should watch a replay of the episode, if that is what is needed to overrule their bias.
You need to watch the replay again, the Katusha stopped for Froome to overtake, then while Froome was starting to turn the corner, it started moving forward again.
 
But there's a flat stage tomorrow, surely animating the group a bit more by taking a few big pulls will do more good for you? Its just so much not Nibali to sit back passively and ask a pure climber like Pellizotti to drive it home.
 
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Valv.Piti said:
Everyone in that group could use time on either Froome or Contador, so thats no alibi. Probably apart from the legend that is Meintjens. It was just stupid they figured it out so late.
Caja Rural, BMC, Kruijswijk, Woods have nothing to gain really. Chaves is riding for a podium, De la Cruz a top 5, both were alone and have over a minute on Contador; Meintjes is Meintjes, Stetina is Trek, and everyone else worked (probably not hard enough). I'm quite surprised that Sunweb, Astana and Katyusha worked to be honest. That's a grand total of 8 riders, and the team leaders didn't even push until the very end. So 4 vs 3
 
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wwabbit said:
Froome would not have fallen if the Katusha car had stayed at complete stop until Froome was complete past the corner, instead of moving forward while Froome was starting to take the corner
It had nothing to do with Froome crashing:

https://youtu.be/6VNAhQfZVM8?t=22

The car slowed right down, let Froome pick his line through the corner, and then started rolling forward once he was going through the apex. It doesn't have to stop. It didn't hinder him at all - he could pick whichever line he wanted. It was actually a very courteous and aware bit of driving, considering Froome was overtaking the car immediately before the corner.
 
Jul 2, 2017
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wwabbit said:
Froome would not have fallen if the Katusha car had stayed at complete stop until Froome was complete past the corner, instead of moving forward while Froome was starting to take the corner
I agree. Katusha may have caused hesitation or distraction for Fromm as he entered the corner. Katusha tean car should of given him more space. Their car intimidated Fromm, they should be reprimanded.
 
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Such a shame that all these GC riders are such pussies. Well, not all of them, but too many for my bias.
You'll be sorely missed Contador.

movingtarget said:
Love the work of the Spanish police, unfortunately they missed one idiot.
Yes, Guardia Civil usually does a pretty good job. Coverage might be dodgy from time to time but I like how they're trying to keep the crowds in check.
 
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wwabbit said:
Froome would not have fallen if the Katusha car had stayed at complete stop until Froome was complete past the corner, instead of moving forward while Froome was starting to take the corner
Maybe the car broke Froome's concentration a bit, but that's still on him, the car did nothing to directly put him in danger and riding around the cars is always a risk.
 
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Brullnux said:
Valv.Piti said:
Everyone in that group could use time on either Froome or Contador, so thats no alibi. Probably apart from the legend that is Meintjens. It was just stupid they figured it out so late.
Caja Rural, BMC, Kruijswijk, Woods have nothing to gain really. Chaves is riding for a podium, De la Cruz a top 5, both were alone and have over a minute on Contador; Meintjes is Meintjes, Stetina is Trek, and everyone else worked (probably not hard enough). I'm quite surprised that Sunweb, Astana and Katyushav worked to be honest. That's a grand total of 8 riders, and the team leaders didn't even push until the very end. So 4 vs 3
Contador will put at least 45 seconds to a minute into both of them in the TT.
 
Re: Re:

wwabbit said:
Cance > TheRest said:
Actually the drivers in the Katusha car did everything in its might to avoid interfering with Froome's line. It braked to give Froome room to pass, when Froome tried to overtake it, coming into the corner.

I have no clue why some people blame the car. The misinformed should watch a replay of the episode, if that is what is needed to overrule their bias.
You need to watch the replay again, the Katusha stopped for Froome to overtake, then while Froome was starting to turn the corner, it started moving forward again.
Well, I don't think the car rolling with 3-4km/h mattered for Froome's line, to be honest. But we will have to wait and see what Froome says, if he explains it by nervousness over the car or he admits to simply sliding out. From the pictures, it appears to be the latter explanation, although it is ofcourse impossible to know what went through Froome's head at the moment. I would say though, that if he gets nervous over a car rolling slowly into a corner, when he's already ahead of it, then his nerves are not very good.
 
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Valv.Piti said:
But there's a flat stage tomorrow, surely animating the group a bit more by taking a few big pulls will do more good for you? Its just so much not Nibali to sit back passively and ask a pure climber like Pellizotti to drive it home.
I think they are all very tired already, and are really concerned about this last week and a bit - looking to save energy wherever possible. The priority today for most was probably to take it relatively easy and use today and tomorrow as some kind of recovery days ahead of the two tough MTFs at the weekend. So gaining 20 seconds without having to go into the red at all is a pretty good result. They can still follow their race recovery plan (which Froome couldn't today), and have gained time.

I agree it's a bit lame for us fans watching, but I think ultimately what they did may have been the right call in trying to win the race.
 
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perico said:
Brullnux said:
Valv.Piti said:
Everyone in that group could use time on either Froome or Contador, so thats no alibi. Probably apart from the legend that is Meintjens. It was just stupid they figured it out so late.
Caja Rural, BMC, Kruijswijk, Woods have nothing to gain really. Chaves is riding for a podium, De la Cruz a top 5, both were alone and have over a minute on Contador; Meintjes is Meintjes, Stetina is Trek, and everyone else worked (probably not hard enough). I'm quite surprised that Sunweb, Astana and Katyushav worked to be honest. That's a grand total of 8 riders, and the team leaders didn't even push until the very end. So 4 vs 3
Contador will put at least 45 seconds to a minute into both of them in the TT.
De la Cruz is sky next season and Chaves probably didn't want to. He is also almost a hindrance in these situations
 

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