Vuelta 2018 stage 19: Lleida - Col de la Rabassa 154.4 km

[shalgo]

Re: Vuelta 2018 stage 19: Lleida - Col de la Rabassa 154.4 k

Safe to say now that Valverde will never win a GT again.

Yep, and if he has any self-respect, this is the last time he'll ride for GC in a GT. It felt bad watching the old man get beat up like that.

I wonder if Chris Horner was sitting back in his lounger chair watching and laughing, today.

Hey, Horner, is a Valverde fan: https://twitter.com/hornerakg/status/1033758727118184449

 

[shalgo]

Re:

Great riding today, es[ecially S Yates, Steve K and Tibo

Mas and MAL - lost more time than they needed through poor tactics

Richie still 18 minutes down

Intriguing GC battle between Richie and Ryan Gibbons. After yesterday, Porte was 82nd and Gibbons was 84th; today, they swapped places.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Still can't express how happy I am when Lopez loses. Have you noticed he never cooperates in a group? He either goes solo, or does nothing.

Also great to see Uran do what he does best: following wheels to the line.

It's obvious he doesn't have the legs. I was surprised to see him up there today.

 

[Laplaz]

De Marchi 12th today, not bad :surprised:

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I think tomorrow we will see Valverde do all he can to defend his podium position and not go after the win. This podium, if he can hold on, will be a LOT to him.

And it shouldn't be. He has a tons of podiums, and this one, even if some kind of a record, shouldn't mean anything to rider of his caliber!

Maybe not, but podiums have always meant something to him and if he gets a podium here it will set the all-time Vuelta podium record. It will also break his own record of longest time between first and most recent podiums.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Vuelta 2018 stage 19: Lleida - Col de la Rabassa 154.4 k

Safe to say now that Valverde will never win a GT again.

Yep, and if he has any self-respect, this is the last time he'll ride for GC in a GT. It felt bad watching the old man get beat up like that.

As if Movistar had another option..........

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

De Marchi 12th today, not bad :surprised:

Very good ride.

 

[Poursuivant]

Enjoyed that last climb, great to see the red jersey attack and work on the front like that, sheer panache from Yates, what a year he has had.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Vuelta 2018 stage 19: Lleida - Col de la Rabassa 154.4 k

Congrats Simon Yates, the only rider with balls today

Don't think it's so much about balls. It's about having way stronger legs than anyone else.

Yep.

As Merckx said, it's easy to attack when you have the strongest legs, but when you really deserve the plaudits is when you don't have the legs and keep fighting

Not sure how much stronger than mas and Lopez Yates really was today. Probably a bit but looking at the results from previous mtf's I just don't think Yates really was so much better.

Yates for 10k in the wind while they sat on wheels, yet still lost a lot of time.
Besides none of the followed Yates when he attacked.

There is no reason to think they were as strong as Yates.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Movistar did what they could, but Yates was too strong.
The stage offered just about the max you can get from modern GC men.

Congrats to Pinot who banked another fine GC stage win.

 

[Velolover2]

The race design turned out to be a pleasant surprise.

Climbs where the first half is hard and the second is more easy are almost always more enjoyable than gradually increasing climbs.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

I think tomorrow we will see Valverde do all he can to defend his podium position and not go after the win. This podium, if he can hold on, will be a LOT to him.

And it shouldn't be. He has a tons of podiums, and this one, even if some kind of a record, shouldn't mean anything to rider of his caliber!

Maybe not, but podiums have always meant something to him and if he gets a podium here it will set the all-time Vuelta podium record. It will also break his own record of longest time between first and most recent podiums.

If valverde cared a bit less about placings and more about winning, he wouldve won more.

Don't get me wrong I like him and also his humility that causes this behaviour. He has it all to be an arrogant big winner, but he's a humble guy that still wins an crazy amount of races despite not having a winners mentality.

 

[Valv.Piti]

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Have to think what Pinot would be doing if he didn't lose that 1:44 on stage 6. Wonder if he ever wins a GT...

He's still inconsistent, regardless.

Yep. Lost 3 (!!!) minutes on Oiz. I mean, I just dont get it.

 

[Kwibus]

Hats of to the first 3. Specially Yates, what a great display. Attacking in the leaders jersey and pulling hard while on 5%gradients.

I hope he wins the vuelta, Kruijswijk would be even better, but less realistic

 

[Koronin]

Re: Re:

I think tomorrow we will see Valverde do all he can to defend his podium position and not go after the win. This podium, if he can hold on, will be a LOT to him.

And it shouldn't be. He has a tons of podiums, and this one, even if some kind of a record, shouldn't mean anything to rider of his caliber!

Maybe not, but podiums have always meant something to him and if he gets a podium here it will set the all-time Vuelta podium record. It will also break his own record of longest time between first and most recent podiums.

If valverde cared a bit less about placings and more about winning, he wouldve won more.

Don't get me wrong I like him and also his humility that causes this behaviour. He has it all to be an arrogant big winner, but he's a humble guy that still wins an crazy amount of races despite not having a winners mentality.

If he wouldn't make some of the mistakes he's made he'd also have won more. He can be a good tactician and he actually can read races, he just also is very prone to mistakes. If he could have cut out those mistakes over the year who know how crazy his palmares could have been.

However, he can still set a podium record and may have wrapped up the Green jersey today.

Yes is a very humble guy and is always so appreciative of his fans. He's also gotten exceptionally good at downplaying his chances on winning things over the years.

 

[Pricey_sky]

Just caught up on the stage, epic ride by Yates when he had a lot of pressure and doubt on his shoulders, one more day to go.

Pinot remains a complete and utter mystery, how can he go from so good, to so bad, to so good again in less than a week, the guy is great to watch, but he’s just never going to win a GT is he?

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Simon Yates is the most swashbuckling top GC rider since a young Contador. If you don’t like watching him, I don’t know why you bother watching Grand Tours. If you think he’s a wheel sucker or just a last km Purito guy, you are blind. If he ever becomes boringly, predictably dominant, I’ll end up cheering for his opponents, but until that point, I’m planning to enjoy the ride.

Pinot is a warrior. He’s frustrating and exillerating, frail and brave.

I’m happy with today’s racing.

 

[Kwibus]

Re:

Just caught up on the stage, epic ride by Yates when he had a lot of pressure and doubt on his shoulders, one more day to go.

Pinot remains a complete and utter mystery, how can he go from so good, to so bad, to so good again in less than a week, the guy is great to watch, but he’s just never going to win a GT is he?

Thats indeed a fine analysis of Pinot. Hes a very enjoyable rider to watch and have in the bunch, but winning a GT is impossible when your so inconsistent.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Vuelta 2018 stage 19: Lleida - Col de la Rabassa 154.4 k

I had to think about the tactics in todays stage again and I'm baffled how Yates managed to decide the gc in his favor out of a horrible situation for him. When Quintana, Pinot and Kruijsiwjk were in front that could have been game over for him because if they collaborate and behind only Yates' teammates chase, a group of Quintana, Pinot and Kruijswijk could gain minutes on Adam Yates and Haig. And if they chase too hard, are done before the finish and Yates has to chase himself, even a pretty bad Valverde might have gained time on him today. Considering that attacking was probably the right move but even then this was tactically incredibly complicated and could have ended differently.

Basically whenever there was someone who set a pace in the Valverde group the gap was stable so Yates only really gained time when behind they were looking at each other. The first time that happened was after Amador got dropped (and I think this was Valverde's biggest tactical error of the day) because right after Amador dropped Quintana dropped from the front group to help out Valverde. The gap was minimal at that point but because everyone was looking at each other they weren't riding much fast than Quintana despite Quintana waiting. So they spent a minute riding 5 to 10 seconds behind a rider only waiting to get caught. If Valverde goes to the front for one minute at that moment I think chances are Quintana drills it for another minute, the Yates group is caught and Yates has already spent a lot of energy. Instead the gap goes up to half a minute and stays like that for a few kilometers until Quintana punctures. Everyone is again looking at each other until Quintana catches the group again and suddenly the gap is up to a minute. Kelderman who attacked after Quintana's puncture was half a minute back at that point and finished just ten seconds behind Mas, MAL and Uran despite being out of shape. Imagine the three had attacked there and worked together. They even might have caught Yates again. But instead everyone waited for Quintana so he could pull for like two kilometers.
Sure, Yates was really strong today and they probably couldn't have dropped him which ever way they had played it but it just feels like if some riders from the chasing group had been a little more smart we would still have a proper fight for red tomorrow. I guess I should be happy that the most attacking rider won but I really hoped for a big showdown tomorrow which I now don't think will happen.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

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Still can't express how happy I am when Lopez loses. Have you noticed he never cooperates in a group? He either goes solo, or does nothing.

Still giggling from seeing him and Nairo in a 'group' together. Like watching excel crash from a circular reference as they both refused to ride.

hahaha. Should've built an iferror...

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Re: Vuelta 2018 stage 19: Lleida - Col de la Rabassa 154.4 k

I had to think about the tactics in todays stage again and I'm baffled how Yates managed to decide the gc in his favor out of a horrible situation for him. When Quintana, Pinot and Kruijsiwjk were in front that could have been game over for him because if they collaborate and behind only Yates' teammates chase, a group of Quintana, Pinot and Kruijswijk could gain minutes on Adam Yates and Haig. And if they chase too hard, are done before the finish and Yates has to chase himself, even a pretty bad Valverde might have gained time on him today. Considering that attacking was probably the right move but even then this was tactically incredibly complicated and could have ended differently.

Basically whenever there was someone who set a pace in the Valverde group the gap was stable so Yates only really gained time when behind they were looking at each other. The first time that happened was after Amador got dropped (and I think this was Valverde's biggest tactical error of the day) because right after Amador dropped Quintana dropped from the front group to help out Valverde. The gap was minimal at that point but because everyone was looking at each other they weren't riding much fast than Quintana despite Quintana waiting. So they spent a minute riding 5 to 10 seconds behind a rider only waiting to get caught. If Valverde goes to the front for one minute at that moment I think chances are Quintana drills it for another minute, the Yates group is caught and Yates has already spent a lot of energy. Instead the gap goes up to half a minute and stays like that for a few kilometers until Quintana punctures. Everyone is again looking at each other until Quintana catches the group again and suddenly the gap is up to a minute. Kelderman who attacked after Quintana's puncture was half a minute back at that point and finished just ten seconds behind Mas, MAL and Uran despite being out of shape. Imagine the three had attacked there and worked together. They even might have caught Yates again. But instead everyone waited for Quintana so he could pull for like two kilometers.
Sure, Yates was really strong today and they probably couldn't have dropped him which ever way they had played it but it just feels like if some riders from the chasing group had been a little more smart we would still have a proper fight for red tomorrow. I guess I should be happy that the most attacking rider won but I really hoped for a big showdown tomorrow which I now don't think will happen.

That group of 3 were never going to get far enough away to be personally threatening to Yates - Haig & Adam aren't chumps. They were only dangerous as a staging post for Piti, and he didn't remotely have it today.

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: Vuelta 2018 stage 19: Lleida - Col de la Rabassa 154.4 k

I had to think about the tactics in todays stage again and I'm baffled how Yates managed to decide the gc in his favor out of a horrible situation for him. When Quintana, Pinot and Kruijsiwjk were in front that could have been game over for him because if they collaborate and behind only Yates' teammates chase, a group of Quintana, Pinot and Kruijswijk could gain minutes on Adam Yates and Haig. And if they chase too hard, are done before the finish and Yates has to chase himself, even a pretty bad Valverde might have gained time on him today. Considering that attacking was probably the right move but even then this was tactically incredibly complicated and could have ended differently.

Basically whenever there was someone who set a pace in the Valverde group the gap was stable so Yates only really gained time when behind they were looking at each other. The first time that happened was after Amador got dropped (and I think this was Valverde's biggest tactical error of the day) because right after Amador dropped Quintana dropped from the front group to help out Valverde. The gap was minimal at that point but because everyone was looking at each other they weren't riding much fast than Quintana despite Quintana waiting. So they spent a minute riding 5 to 10 seconds behind a rider only waiting to get caught. If Valverde goes to the front for one minute at that moment I think chances are Quintana drills it for another minute, the Yates group is caught and Yates has already spent a lot of energy. Instead the gap goes up to half a minute and stays like that for a few kilometers until Quintana punctures. Everyone is again looking at each other until Quintana catches the group again and suddenly the gap is up to a minute. Kelderman who attacked after Quintana's puncture was half a minute back at that point and finished just ten seconds behind Mas, MAL and Uran despite being out of shape. Imagine the three had attacked there and worked together. They even might have caught Yates again. But instead everyone waited for Quintana so he could pull for like two kilometers.
Sure, Yates was really strong today and they probably couldn't have dropped him which ever way they had played it but it just feels like if some riders from the chasing group had been a little more smart we would still have a proper fight for red tomorrow. I guess I should be happy that the most attacking rider won but I really hoped for a big showdown tomorrow which I now don't think will happen.

That group of 3 were never going to get far enough away to be personally threatening to Yates - Haig & Adam aren't chumps. They were only dangerous as a staging post for Piti, and he didn't remotely have it today.

Kruijswijk was 1:43, Quintana 2:11 behind Yates. They definitely could have threatened Yates. Maybe they wouldn't have overtaken him but it could have become incredibly close.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Haig had kept the gap small. When he was finished, Simon was confident he could make a short effort and make contact. Once he made contact, Movistar’s tactical advantage became his tactical advantage because he knew that one or both of Pinot and Kruijswijk would pull (it was in their interests to do so). If he hadn’t gone it would have been up to Adam to hold the gap to the three in front to a GC irrelevant time. Adam would probably have done so but the shallow incline, favouring a group of three over a solitary chaser, meant that there was some risk to that too. So Simon bet on his own strength, which has been the correct thing to do all race long.

 

[Red Rick]

I think it was also a really stupid mistake by Valverde to not sit on Yates' wheel in the peloton

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Re:

I think it was also a really stupid mistake by Valverde to not sit on Yates' wheel in the peloton

He seemed pretty miffed to have Yates sitting on his wheel the whole way up the climb :lol: