You're projecting. There is just no evidence that he wasn't still in the Peloton when he first raised his hand, live with it.
- Feb 26, 2022
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I wonder if there aren't any better fotos... after all knowing people a bunch of them will probably have taken photos of Evenepoel standing in front of them and maybe you can see more there? Also, maybe spectators telling when he first raised his hand etc....?
The bike really should have been inspected by the jury asap, that would have left less debate... because this way there's just some shade about everything... starting with the 3km rule which always annoys me on such stages but of course was in place and everyone knew it was - then there's the thing that there was not just the front group and the peloton but several groups and it's hard to tell which group Evenepoel would have finished with but he just got the time of the first group of chasers - on the one hand it's all fine, there is no clear mishandling of the rules, on the other hand it's not satisfyingly solved and leaves a shallow taste.
The bike really should have been inspected by the jury asap, that would have left less debate... because this way there's just some shade about everything... starting with the 3km rule which always annoys me on such stages but of course was in place and everyone knew it was - then there's the thing that there was not just the front group and the peloton but several groups and it's hard to tell which group Evenepoel would have finished with but he just got the time of the first group of chasers - on the one hand it's all fine, there is no clear mishandling of the rules, on the other hand it's not satisfyingly solved and leaves a shallow taste.
- Jun 1, 2015
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Given Remco’s history in the Vuelta of being at the point end when he isn’t dropped and his loss of position in the kms leading up to 3km, I’m curious how a Roglic fan vs. a Remco fan would apply Occam’s Razor.
For me, I’d honestly say the most likely scenario is Remco had a partial flat that caused him to lose position and he waited until 3km to go and/or Roglic’s attack to flag it.
I do not think it likely he would lose position like that without a flat, and I equally find it unlikely that he would fake a flat completely.
Edit: I do mean this as an assertion of fact but rather my assessment with the facts at hand. I also don’t think Remco would be a cheater if this were the case.
For me, I’d honestly say the most likely scenario is Remco had a partial flat that caused him to lose position and he waited until 3km to go and/or Roglic’s attack to flag it.
I do not think it likely he would lose position like that without a flat, and I equally find it unlikely that he would fake a flat completely.
Edit: I do mean this as an assertion of fact but rather my assessment with the facts at hand. I also don’t think Remco would be a cheater if this were the case.
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- Feb 26, 2022
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- Aug 29, 2009
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definitely, no issue with that, but the rules say that he then gets the"same finishing time of the rider or riders they were with at the time of the incident".
So this doesn't necessarily mean he gets the time of the favourites' group. If there was a split already, he would need to get the time of the group he was with instead. Can't say for sure if there was a split already when he first indicated his mechanical, but this picture shows Gugliemi (+2:37 in the end) going past him before he stopped, so I'd think it's fairly likely that he was not in the +8s group anymore.
- Feb 26, 2022
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Oh yeah sure, it's all Gen Z and other generations don't have that trait...
- Apr 16, 2009
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So what if he did flat before the 3km mark??? do you want to win the Vuelta by gaining seconds on a flat? all in all is a moot point because of Roglic's condition anyway. I really don't understand what is the fuss about this. Seriously!
- Sep 20, 2017
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Ah yes, the CN forum, famous for its high concentration of Gen Z posters.
Not to mention that this is probably the dumbest thing I've read on here today. Even the conspiracy theories regarding Evenepoel's flat are less stupid...
- Oct 31, 2018
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Well, I imagine it was put in use in order to avoid clumsy GC riders like say Roglic or Froome from having to mingle in sprints and cause mass crashes?
I supose it's way more important for a few sourgrapes to make ridiculous accussations against Remco then the safety of the riders, right?
On topic:
I'm 100% the flat occured before the 3k limit. If it happened after the 3k limit he would have ended up changing bikes at least 1k further up the road.
Whether or not he felt the flat a lot sooner is harder to say and only he really knows.
I am however certain that if Remco didn't have a flat, he would have been next to Roglic and Roglic wouldn't have attacked. Roglic saw Evenepoel was way back and decided to attack. I'm not saying it's unsportmanlike, because there's no way Roglic could have known it was a mechanical. It could just as easily been bad positioning. But I'm glad Remco didn't lose a lot of time for his GC by a mechanical.
This being said the fall of Roglic is a small tragedy for him in what has been a f***k season for him. Hope he recoveres to try again this saterday.
Again, same foolishness as the other guy who posted earlier. For all you know, he could have been soft-pedalling for 2:30 min already by the time the photo was taken. It's about as "fairly likely" as it is "fairly unlikely".definitely, no issue with that, but the rules say that he then gets the"same finishing time of the rider or riders they were with at the time of the incident".
So this doesn't necessarily mean he gets the time of the favourites' group. If there was a split already, he would need to get the time of the group he was with instead. Can't say for sure if there was a split already when he first indicated his mechanical, but this picture shows Gugliemi (+2:37 in the end) going past him before he stopped, so I'd think it's fairly likely that he was not in the +8s group anymore.
- Apr 16, 2009
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This picture proves nothing! what is the point of showing it.definitely, no issue with that, but the rules say that he then gets the"same finishing time of the rider or riders they were with at the time of the incident".
So this doesn't necessarily mean he gets the time of the favourites' group. If there was a split already, he would need to get the time of the group he was with instead. Can't say for sure if there was a split already when he first indicated his mechanical, but this picture shows Gugliemi (+2:37 in the end) going past him before he stopped, so I'd think it's fairly likely that he was not in the +8s group anymore.
- Jun 1, 2015
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Yeah really the big deal is Roglic’s crash which sucks for fans of Roglic and just fans of the race. I think Remco would have won regardless, but I was looking forward to Roglic putting on a show as he did today for the remainder of the race. The race loses a lot without him (healthy).
So you are saying he should get 2:37 because he was with a guy that was not battling for the win or GC and took a stroll to the finish?definitely, no issue with that, but the rules say that he then gets the"same finishing time of the rider or riders they were with at the time of the incident".
So this doesn't necessarily mean he gets the time of the favourites' group. If there was a split already, he would need to get the time of the group he was with instead. Can't say for sure if there was a split already when he first indicated his mechanical, but this picture shows Gugliemi (+2:37 in the end) going past him before he stopped, so I'd think it's fairly likely that he was not in the +8s group anymore.
- Jan 31, 2016
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It doesn't even need to look flat to be underaired to ride safely. Nothing has confirmed the officials examined it or not but there are so many cameras on the situation someone should come up with the footage. If DQS crew did not get the officials review, in-situ; they should not qualify for the 3km time. There was no need for Remco to ride to the line without the review, anyway if he had the issue inside 3km. The officials could check it out and then he could ride to the finish.
I'm sure there will be some video confirming an officials coverage. There better be or it's a non-qualification as the rider and his team don't get to make the claim unreviewed.
- Feb 26, 2022
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I fear that indeed it's not that important in the end, but I think these issues are not just interesting in the context of this specific race, but need to be thought about to be handled better in the future. Sure, it was all a bit of a special situation, but then it also wasn't - should there be a 3km rule on such stages (well it has been debated often, but in my eyes it's not really solved), should we just assume the leader would have finished with the favourites anyway, should there be "proof" needed when you take advantage of the 3km rule, such things...
- Oct 1, 2014
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So a rider has a problem with 6k to go and doesn't do anything about until 2.9k to go... the uci should clarify this. Depending on your viewpoint it's either genius or a Abu Dhabi style disgrace.
- Jun 1, 2015
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Well he also took a stroll to the finish so maybe? JK. But I think they should change the rule to be s.t. as long as it looks like you’re actually trying to kick it home. Or have the GC riders split off to a separate finish line. Being somewhat facetious here, but not completely.
- Aug 29, 2009
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if there was a split, he should get the time of the group he was with, yes. Whichever it was. That's what the rules say.
He may have been raising his arm for half a minute at that point already of course. I don't know. But it's the only picture I could find.
- Aug 29, 2009
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that's incorrect. He was indeed looking at the wrong document then. ("Article 2.6.027" is the 3k rule)
https://storage-aso.lequipe.fr/ASO/cycling_vue/download-specific-regulations.pdf (page 5)
- Apr 3, 2009
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Tomorrow's talk track will be about how much energy Remco wasted riding on a flat for 3k and how that's going to hose him come Saturday.
- Sep 14, 2020
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People get over excited in the moment and say outlandish things on stage threads. Like this one
The Remco thread was full of very nervous posters and trolls.
- Apr 16, 2009
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If the rider can handle a flat from 6km to 3km I'll let him apply the rule because he is a great bike handler.
- Jan 31, 2016
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A rider with a flat at 6km would have crashed within 200m navigating that cityscape. Not very likely. He could have began losing air but didn't get into a danger situation until close to 3km. If it were me and I thought it was going down I'd roll beyond the 3km mark and make damn sure it was flat and that would be honorable and legal.
The officials can review it and we can go to bed knowing it was nothing but a thang!
No, in fact it's neither. If that is what happened, it's simply a sensible tactical choice under the circumstances, one that I believe pretty much all his rivals would have also taken. Nothing genius about it. The fact that he could soft-pedal the final is an unfortunate byproduct of the rule, but slightly alleviated by the fact that probably had to dig pretty deep before that just to stay in the group.
- Jan 31, 2016
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PS: in American crit racing there is a solid rule that the rider stops in the controlled pits where neutral replacement wheels are stored, the officials check it out and they have several laps to repair and rejoin the field where they were positioned. That eligibility ends several laps (about 2km) from the finish and you'd then be obligated to ride the flat to the line. If it's a GC event you're out of luck.
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