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Vuelta a España Vuelta a España 2023, stage 17: Ribadesella/Ribadeseya - Altu de l’Angliru, 124.4k

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Eeslliw

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Jonas wanted to keep Kuss in red today and would be very happy if he wins it - Jonas words. Then why on earth did he go with Roglic? Roglic is 1 min behind him in GC and he won't get that time in 2 km to the finish, so Roglic wasn't a threat to his 2nd position in GC. Just stay with Kuss and that is it, you will make sure Kuss keeps the leaders jersey. Now it's 8 s difference which could be taken just by bonus seconds. Now he can't even go for the stage win, if he really wants Kuss to win GC. Just doesn't make any sense.

Yesterday I was on Jonas side because I am sure he didn't think he would gain 1 min with that attack and he really just wanted the stage. But today he should know better and give a hand to his teammate and give something back.
 
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ontheroad

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KOM said:
Lol wtf is going on with Vingegaard. "To be honest I actually hope that he will keep the jersey. I would love to see Sepp winning the Vuelta a España" Those are direct quotes from his Interview at the finish... I dont even know what to say... Just let Roglic take 20 Seconds then and pace Sepp? Maybe dont attack yesterday and take more than a minute on him? This makes absolutely no sense. Most absurd part is that from his facial expresion and the tone of his voice he seems somewhat genuine to me
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Never judge a cyclist (especially a Jumbo rider) by their words but rather by their actions. Those Jumbo riders look to be media trained to the nth degree to say absolutely nothing in interviews.
 
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Oldermanish

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RobertCrawley said:
Bobke Roll is pretty unhappy that Primoz rode for victory. He even suggested Sepptimus should consider changing teams. I know he loves Sepp because they both have strong ties to Durango, Colorado, but at the end of the day, Sepp has said he wants no gifts. He wants to be a true champion.
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Bob is as disingenuous as they come. He never criticized his Patron Armstrong when Lancey wouldn't allow Landis to even win the stage in the most selfish move next to The Badger's treatment of Lemond. It's not like the race is over and putting time into the other teams isn't important.
I would wager the understanding at the start of today's stage was: protect Sepp's lead over the others, win the stage. They did that.
 
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Volderke

Volderke

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A friend of mine, who is new to bike racing, asked me how I would explain things happening in the Vuelta.

I told him I have no idea and that I only can explain old-fashioned bike racing, none of this new way of racing that's in fashion right now...
KOM said:
Lol wtf is going on with Vingegaard. "To be honest I actually hope that he will keep the jersey. I would love to see Sepp winning the Vuelta a España" Those are direct quotes from his Interview at the finish... I dont even know what to say... Just let Roglic take 20 Seconds then and pace Sepp? Maybe dont attack yesterday and take more than a minute on him? This makes absolutely no sense. Most absurd part is that from his facial expresion and the tone of his voice he seems somewhat genuine to me
Click to expand...
This story has been posted before, but it's applicable today as well:
A scorpion wants to cross a river but cannot swim, so it asks a frog to carry it across. The frog hesitates, afraid that the scorpion might sting it, but the scorpion promises not to, pointing out that it would drown if it killed the frog in the middle of the river. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: "I am sorry, but I couldn't resist the urge. It's in my nature."
 
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Poursuivant

Poursuivant

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Eeslliw said:
Jonas wanted to keep Kuss in red today and would be very happy if he wins it - Jonas words. Then why on earth did he go with Roglic? Roglic is 1 min behind him in GC and he won't get that time in 2 km to the finish, so Roglic wasn't a threat to his 2nd position in GC. Just stay with Kuss and that is it, you will make sure Kuss keeps the leaders jersey. Now it's 8 s difference which could be taken just by bonus seconds. Now he can't even go for the stage win, if he really wants Kuss to win GC. Just doesn't make any sense.

Yesterday I was on Jonas side because I am sure he didn't think he would gain 1 min with that attack and he really just wanted the stage. But today he should know better and give a hand to his teammate and give something back.
Click to expand...

Mate, he is lying. Roglic and Vingegaard want to win the race. It’s that simple.
 
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Zinoviev Letter

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Devil's Elbow said:
Sky lost the 2011 Vuelta with that logic (until Cobo got popped, of course).
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no, Sky temporarily lost that Vuelta because they underestimated both Froome and Cobo. There is no reason to believe for a second that JV are underestimating their own riders or their opponents. If anyone is seriously suggesting that Ayuso or Mas are threats to win this Vuelta at this point I can only conclude that they are being disingenuous,
 
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Oldermanish

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Tim Cahill said:
Vingegaard could drop these guys by a minute, Roglic has missed his chance, he should've attacked from far and hard in the first week when he was stronger but again he throws a GT not making hay when the sun shines.
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I keep mentioning how long the race is. The advantage Vingo has have been gifts from Roglic and you only have to watch how he's ridden both stages of Jonas' gains to see that.
 
Escarabajo

Escarabajo

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Eeslliw said:
Jonas wanted to keep Kuss in red today and would be very happy if he wins it - Jonas words. Then why on earth did he go with Roglic? Roglic is 1 min behind him in GC and he won't get that time in 2 km to the finish, so Roglic wasn't a threat to his 2nd position in GC. Just stay with Kuss and that is it, you will make sure Kuss keeps the leaders jersey. Now it's 8 s difference which could be taken just by bonus seconds. Now he can't even go for the stage win, if he really wants Kuss to win GC. Just doesn't make any sense.

Yesterday I was on Jonas side because I am sure he didn't think he would gain 1 min with that attack and he really just wanted the stage. But today he should know better and give a hand to his teammate and give something back.
Click to expand...
LOL, this is a circus. Some things nobody can answer. Imagine that Vingegaard had stayed and paced Kuss to his attacking teammate? that would have been the most absurd picture in cycling!!
But anyway, none of this makes any sense because I don't think that no team has been in this situation before. They simply don't know what to do.
 
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jaylew

jaylew

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KOM said:
Lol wtf is going on with Vingegaard. "To be honest I actually hope that he will keep the jersey. I would love to see Sepp winning the Vuelta a España" Those are direct quotes from his Interview at the finish... I dont even know what to say... Just let Roglic take 20 Seconds then and pace Sepp? Maybe dont attack yesterday and take more than a minute on him? This makes absolutely no sense. Most absurd part is that from his facial expresion and the tone of his voice he seems somewhat genuine to me
Click to expand...
It may be a little weird but I understand him. I think starting with today's stage (as was mentioned by the team) that whoever was strongest would win. He'd like Sepp to win but he has to earn it by being able to keep up with the best. I'm fine with it even if I'd like to see him win.
 
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RobertCrawley

RobertCrawley

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ChewbaccaDefense said:
It has always been a team sport, with egos breaking that dynamic many times...this is one of those times, but with the work Kuss has done for both of the divas on JV, he deserves their support. Kuss is being gracious in his interview...Roglic and Jonas do not deserve his loyalty, but he gives it anyway, just like he did for them in the Giro and Tour. JV needs to be broken up anyway, so maybe this will be the race that does that.
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His loyalty is not a gift, really. It's his job to help them win GTs. That's what he gets paid to do.

He's in an unusual position because he happened to gain minutes in an early stage. Winning GTS is not in his job description.

But I hope he hangs on. It would be great for his career palmares.
 
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ChewbaccaDefense

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I hate what I'm watching on every level...I understand the hyporcrsy of that statement, but I've been a fan of this sport since the late '80's, and have gone through other hatreds...this one feels more disheartening in a lot of ways. It's terrible racing, media coached interviews, egos over everything (this has been the constant throughout), inexplicable performance, and ignoring the elephant in the room as it stomps around, smashing everything, while telling us it's a kitten.

I think Lachlan Morton is the only story this week that I actually give a sh!t about.
 
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EddyMazzoleni

EddyMazzoleni

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KOM said:
Lol wtf is going on with Vingegaard. "To be honest I actually hope that he will keep the jersey. I would love to see Sepp winning the Vuelta a España" Those are direct quotes from his Interview at the finish... I dont even know what to say... Just let Roglic take 20 Seconds then and pace Sepp? Maybe dont attack yesterday and take more than a minute on him? This makes absolutely no sense. Most absurd part is that from his facial expresion and the tone of his voice he seems somewhat genuine to me
Click to expand...
Tbf, from what i was able to see through the fog, Kuss was the first to attack across from Landa to Roglic. Now, maybe Vingegaard would have attacked later anyway, there's really no way to know, but given the outcome that was not a smart move from Sepp.
 
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