Who would win, Cancellara or Cavendish

[Dalakhani]

Or even 4 guys from different teams over 100km of varied terrain. Winner takes all.

How about: last 100km of stage 13 of this year's TdF.

4 man line-up:

Spartacus
Vino
Thor
Wiggo

Anyone fancy estimating the odds?

Steve

 

[Muerdago11]

Cancellara would rip Cavs legs off. Honestly how is this a thread?

I agree. The whole thread is ridiculous. Cancellara would absolutely kill Cav. It's apples and oranges.

 

[Ferminal]

How about: last 100km of stage 13 of this year's TdF.

4 man line-up:

Spartacus
Vino
Thor
Wiggo

Anyone fancy estimating the odds?

Steve

Vinokourov 2.20
Cancellara 2.50
Hushovd 4.50
Wiggins 13.00

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

Yes it probably would, but I'd be willing to guess that Cancellara and any other strong one day rider would have a far greater ability to continually put in efforts than a specialist sprinter be that Cav, Greipel, Petacchi, Farrar or whoever. With respect to Farrar, he showed reasonable improvement this season in the early classics.

If these guys are so strong that they could follow Cancellara attacking and TTing for 200km, why aren't they following the big wheels in P-R?

Because the cobbles give Cancellara an opportunity to break away or push the pace and drop them. In an pan-flat race, this wouldn't happen.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I'm betting Cav won't let Canc get away.
Cav.

 

[Winterfold]

its clear you dont understand cycling and the various types of riders. cavendish is a pure sprinter he does not have endurance or the sustainable power like a world champ tt rider has. cancellara would crush him by many many many minutes. now in a 200 meter side by side cavendish would win 200 k absolutely no chance.

This is inaccurate - Cav is also a national level pursuit and world champion Madison rider his average speeds on those distances are very impressive when you give him the 25% saving he gets from drafting Spartacus it is very different.

This is not a timetrial.

I still want to know how Cav gets dropped - I can see Cav drafting at 60 kmh for 5-10 KM can Canc do 60 kmh for longer?

 

[usedtobefast]

This is inaccurate - Cav is also a national level pursuit and world champion Madison rider his average speeds on those distances are very impressive when you give him the 25% saving he gets from drafting Spartacus it is very different.

This is not a timetrial.

I still want to know how Cav gets dropped - I can see Cav drafting at 60 kmh for 5-10 KM can Canc do 60 kmh for longer?

would they not be trading pulls at some point? i can't see one guy just sitting on and the other just pulling. tactics would be needed.

 

[Izzy eviel]

What if Cav had his TdF team with him? Would that make it a bit more interesting?

 

[Mambo95]

What if Cav had his TdF team with him? Would that make it a bit more interesting?

The entire peloton can't stop Cavendish winning then, so I wouldn't hold out much hope for Cancellara on his own.

 

[Ferminal]

Because the cobbles give Cancellara an opportunity to break away or push the pace and drop them. In an pan-flat race, this wouldn't happen.

Yes, exactly, because they aren't strong enough after 150km to hold his wheel on the cobbles - their one day endurance is far less.

 

[ferryman]

I think a more interesting discussion would have been, who would win on a short prologue (like 5kms or less)

Cancellara by 10 seconds over 5K

 

[ferryman]

The entire peloton can't stop Cavendish winning then, so I wouldn't hold out much hope for Cancellara on his own.

Nice one

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

would they not be trading pulls at some point? i can't see one guy just sitting on and the other just pulling. tactics would be needed.

Cav has no reason to pull and would force Cancellara to do all the work. If Cancellara just wants to keep it easy for 200k, it wiuld go down to a sprint and Cav would win. So tacticly, Cav has a definite advantage over Cancellara

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

Yes, exactly, because they aren't strong enough after 150km to hold his wheel on the cobbles - their one day endurance is far less.

Yes, but if in a pan-flat, no-cobbles race, Cancellara would not have an opportunity to drop Cav, especially if he is forced to do the work the entire time. In P-R, Cancellara has teammates pulling in order for him to save energy. If there was a pacer in this race, Cancellara would almost definitely win; however, in this case, Cancellara would most likely be forced to pull the entire thing.

 

[Ferminal]

Yes, but if in a pan-flat, no-cobbles race, Cancellara would not have an opportunity to drop Cav, especially if he is forced to do the work the entire time. In P-R, Cancellara has teammates pulling in order for him to save energy. If there was a pacer in this race, Cancellara would almost definitely win; however, in this case, Cancellara would most likely be forced to pull the entire thing.

Over 200km I'm sure there would be many times where Cav falls asleep or something, once Cancellara gets 20m it's game over (if Cav were to "sprint" across such a gap he would just burn himself).

Now I'm just looking like an ultimate Cav hater, but if we stopped bumping this topic...

 

[benpounder]

in a 200km one-on-one road race on a totally flat motorway with no wind?

Spartacus! He does a massive inital ITT, drops Cav, and just spends the rest of the day dangling in front of Cavendish, knowing that Cav cant sprint out with out the help of the peloton or team.

 

[Bertie]

Canc would need more than a 20m sleep from Cav. Dont see it happening. And rather than the playing in Canc's hands the longer it goes on, I see it going the opposite way as Canc has spent more and more time at the front. My money is still on Cav...poll time perhaps?

 

[usedtobefast]

Cav has no reason to pull and would force Cancellara to do all the work. If Cancellara just wants to keep it easy for 200k, it wiuld go down to a sprint and Cav would win. So tacticly, Cav has a definite advantage over Cancellara

i don't think it would be quite so easy. Cav could not force Canc to pull. i know how to get someone to work and i am not a professional. mind games come in to play. they are men and you can do things on the road to achieve your goal, beyond physical ability.

 

[robertocarlos]

the same scenario but replace cav. by tony martin
or cancellara for your favorite sprinter (griepel, boonen, freire, hushov,?

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

i don't think it would be quite so easy. Cav could not force Canc to pull. i know how to get someone to work and i am not a professional. mind games come in to play. they are men and you can do things on the road to achieve your goal, beyond physical ability.

But if Cav got up to the front, he would just sit up and save energy for the sprint. When there are no consequences to taking it easy, I don't think mind games would work very well. Once in a junior race, because all of my teammates had attacked leaving just two of us left in what used to the pack, I sat on this one kids whell the entire time. If he ever got me to get up to the front, I would just sit up. He would make an attack, and I would follow. Eventually, my teammate lapped us, and I pulled him to the finish

 

[The Hitch]

But if Cav got up to the front, he would just sit up and save energy for the sprint. When there are no consequences to taking it easy, I don't think mind games would work very well. Once in a junior race, because all of my teammates had attacked leaving just two of us left in what used to the pack, I sat on this one kids whell the entire time. If he ever got me to get up to the front, I would just sit up. He would make an attack, and I would follow. Eventually, my teammate lapped us, and I pulled him to the finish

At a junior level, does it feel rewarding to help a teammate win? is there the motivation?

 

[Fowsto Cope-E]

At a junior level, does it feel rewarding to help a teammate win? is there the motivation?

Yes, and Cav would have motivation to not work hard, as well. I was just making the point that it is pretty hard to make someone pull if there are no consequences for their actions.

 

[slowtwitch]

there is a lack of fundamental understanding of the types of riders these guys are in this thread. people are claiming cav is great in 500m, 1k, 5k, and 10k efforts, or when shielded by a team of riders. Great. the difference between a 5k effort and a 10k effort is enormous, let alone the difference between a 10k effort and a 200k effort.

cav's legs are trained to burst once at full power. canc is designed to hold a certain speed for 5, 10, 40k. if you don't understand that difference in physiology, then you do not understand cycling or endurance sports in general.

someone claimed cav can hold his teammates' wheel for 5-10k at 60kmh, and that's wonderful. cancellara is not stupid enough to let cav ride 190k in his draft. canc will take it easy for 150k, ramp up speed until he gets cav off his wheel. The speed is not what drops cav, the muscular endurance is what drops him. once he is dropped, cav's legs will have lost the ability to clear lactic acid (the stuff that makes your legs burn) faster than his body produces it.

while the question is hypothetical, you need to argue based on scientific fact. how cav does over (relatively) short intense efforts has nothing to do with a 200k race, so why bring up useless facts.

 

[robertocarlos]

there is a lack of fundamental understanding of the types of riders these guys are in this thread. people are claiming cav is great in 500m, 1k, 5k, and 10k efforts, or when shielded by a team of riders. Great. the difference between a 5k effort and a 10k effort is enormous, let alone the difference between a 10k effort and a 200k effort.

cav's legs are trained to burst once at full power. canc is designed to hold a certain speed for 5, 10, 40k. if you don't understand that difference in physiology, then you do not understand cycling or endurance sports in general.

someone claimed cav can hold his teammates' wheel for 5-10k at 60kmh, and that's wonderful. cancellara is not stupid enough to let cav ride 190k in his draft. canc will take it easy for 150k, ramp up speed until he gets cav off his wheel. The speed is not what drops cav, the muscular endurance is what drops him. once he is dropped, cav's legs will have lost the ability to clear lactic acid (the stuff that makes your legs burn) faster than his body produces it.

while the question is hypothetical, you need to argue based on scientific fact. how cav does over (relatively) short intense efforts has nothing to do with a 200k race, so why bring up useless facts.

+1
is like asking who would win a mile race between michael johnson vs usain bolt.

 

[usedtobefast]

+1
is like asking who would win a mile race between michael johnson vs usain bolt.

this is a hypothetical thread have fun and you will. your lack of understanding of that is boring. and we don't know, do we?