Wiggins in clean tour win shocker?

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Apr 29, 2009
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The Cobra said:
Lolololololololol.

So who said I cant be a hypocrite? :eek:

I take back what I said about Cobo. The guy probably was clean. Or was is he?? Tbh I dont know anymore. I just cant beleive that Sky would be stupid enough to do a team wide doping program because it is impossible to keep that **** quiet for long. Someone always talks, in this case Froome looks like a prime candidate. I believe because I want to, not because it makes any sense. :cool:

As far as clean cycling goes I think this is as good as its ever going to get.
We all are at some stage.

Enjoy Brad's victory, but no 7 in a row.
 
Jul 27, 2010
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PedalPusher said:
I don't care how "anti doping" he has been in the past publicly. Means nothing, a show for the show. I would do the same thing if I was guilty and so do others. Hell I would even hold back a bit so there would be no suspicion about doping. Which happened. I don't care if you "think" he is a nice guy, think you know him etc..YOU DO NOT.
Neither do you. You're just an incredibly bad judge of character.

PedalPusher said:
Pursuit rider to TT champ? Sure...classics, very possible, domestique, of course...GC contender for TDF? Not buying it.
Your loss then. A clean rider just won the Tour, and you're going to have to eat it.
 
Jun 18, 2012
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The Valley said:
Neither do you. You're just an incredibly bad judge of character.



Your loss then. A clean rider just won the Tour, and you're going to have to eat it.
I don't claim to know him...the point is, not one fan can "be a judge of character" based on media interactions or a stupid book. We have the same moronic thinking here in the US with Dopestrong...

A clean rider? Time will tell...
 
May 21, 2010
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ChewbaccaD said:
I am going to go against the grain here. While I think the OP is simply trolling, I am going to say that I will not sully Wiggins' win by calling him a doper when I have no proof what so ever. If he or anyone on his team tests positive, I will be fully on board with questioning what happened this tour. But I have read opinions that suggest the numbers being put out are possible for clean riders. Certainly there are others who claim that is nothing but hogwash. However, there is no proof for me that Wiggins or his team doped. There really is only opinion on the subject. There has been no Simeoni moment with Wiggins; there is no positive test on Wiggins; there is no positive test for any member of Sky's team. Certainly they could be ahead of the game in terms of getting away with doping, but that is merely opinion with no proof. I am personally uncomfortable with proclamations of guilt with no proof what so ever. Wiggins is not Armstrong....so far.

Congratulations to Brad for winning the Tour.
Nice reasoned response that got buried under umpteen pages. And I must admit, I feel the same way. Although I still believe we have a right to be suspicious of Sky/Bradley and Bradley should expect a few fast balls being thrown his way on the subject.
 
The Valley said:
Neither do you. You're just an incredibly bad judge of character.



Your loss then. A clean rider just won the Tour, and you're going to have to eat it.
Were the countless people who thought Tyler Hamilton was a lovely guy who would never have done anything nasty like that all incredibly bad judges of character too?
 
Mar 26, 2009
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Froome19 said:
Yet to totally dismiss something because it is a great achievement is as ridiculous.

Not necessarily: if Phil Liggett wins the TdF next year it would be one of the greatest achievements in cycling history, yet it would also be dismissed as one of the greatest farces in cycling history.

Great achievements are one thing, completely unrealistic performances by an entire cycling team are another.
 
Mar 26, 2009
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roundabout said:
So Wiggins calling people bad words was a controlled emotional impulse? :eek:
This to go along with his "nagging self-doubt" brought upon by being a multiple Olympic gold medalist and world champion, and previous 4th place finisher in the the TdF. :rolleyes:
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Geordieracer said:
Thats kinda my point lol
Because a few faceless people on here claim hes doping he has to be
No proof , No evidence but hey who cares about that

Its my opionion i,m putting out there trying to give a fair balance to what is generally a very one sided arguament , you dont have to agree
just felt that its something i wanted to express
"This thread is about Wiggins." Without his team, Wiggins would not have won, this thread can not discuss Wiggins without discussing his team.

"No proof, no evidence"? Shucks, buddy, there's no proof and no evidence of 99% of the doping cases we know today happened. We have hearsay mostly - people telling stories. It just so happens that they are mostly the same stories, which gives them weight. In the case of Sky this year - Wiggins had a blood test earlier this year that an anti-doping expert said he thought suspicious. We also have uncommonly strong performances, that initially reminded everybody of the dominance of another historical team that was doping. For that matter, we could extend that "dominance" theory to Indurain, and find some similarity there, as well.

Until we get better testing, there is plenty of reason for suspicion. We hear conflicting evidence given by members of the peloton - so who do we believe? The guy who says things are getting pretty clean, or the guy who says the needle is still an essential part of the pro's diet?

I may be suspicious, but I find in retrospect that things may indeed be "cool". If this continues for a few years, and we don't see people getting popped who say they are clean - maybe I will watch a Tour without that nagging doubt in the back of my mind. Remember, I've been lied to for a LONG time - 2 decades now. And you have been lied to for that long also.
 

ianfra

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Mar 10, 2009
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Great post by ChewbaccaD. There is not one iota of evidence that Wiggins cheated his way and I am happy to celebrate his triumph along with 99% of the cycling population. There will always be cynics in any walk of life and on this board if you dare oppose them and their unreasoned arguments then you are called a troll and other childish things. I am OK about that because I realise that CyclingNews provides this pressure valve called the clinic where these peeps can let off steam but I, for one, cannot take their arguments seriously. Well done Wiggo. Well done Sky. I am sure that Cadel was clean last last year and so we've had two clean tours in a row. Paul Watson, the ex ANC and Hitachi rider who refused to be part of the doping culture in the 1980s also believes that Sky are clean. Darryl, also an ex pro who posts here, is a cynic but then he has had a history of difficulties with British Cycling (BCF). There are different views but we should all realise that the views posted in the Clinic are the views of a small minority, some of whom seem to be obsessed and all of whom cannot produce evidence even though they have huge incentives to do so. Many post opinion as fact. However, all evidence points to Sky riding clean and winning because of the intelligent approach they took to the whole organisation of their project. Well done Wiggo, Brailsford et al. Fantastic. Fantastic.
 
Jul 10, 2010
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Hotbrakes said:
We all are at some stage.

Enjoy Brad's victory, but no 7 in a row.
+1

But I don't think he will. I think he has more of what it takes to win the Tour than Evans, but not much. I could see Bradley getting two, with a small possibility of 3.

But, assuming that Sky did it clean- it took an incredible amount of focus for an extended time. I don't think they can keep the riders together that long, on one team, devoted to one winner. And Bradley would have a very hard time winning without the protection the Sky team gave him.

On the other hand, I could see them doing this for Froome. But, as others have pointed out, we haven't seen Froome go up against AC yet. Nor the Shlecks when they are on target and in shape.

Just my $.02.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Jun 19, 2009
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ianfra said:
Great post by ChewbaccaD. There is not one iota of evidence that Wiggins cheated his way and I am happy to celebrate his triumph along with 99% of the cycling population. There will always be cynics in any walk of life and on this board if you dare oppose them and their unreasoned arguments then you are called a troll and other childish things. I am OK about that because I realise that CyclingNews provides this pressure valve called the clinic where these peeps can let off steam but I, for one, cannot take their arguments seriously. Well done Wiggo. Well done Sky. I am sure that Cadel was clean last last year and so we've had two clean tours in a row. Paul Watson, the ex ANC and Hitachi rider who refused to be part of the doping culture in the 1980s also believes that Sky are clean. Darryl, also an ex pro who posts here, is a cynic but then he has had a history of difficulties with British Cycling (BCF). There are different views but we should all realise that the views posted in the Clinic are the views of a small minority, some of whom seem to be obsessed and all of whom cannot produce evidence even though they have huge incentives to do so. Many post opinion as fact. However, all evidence points to Sky riding clean and winning because of the intelligent approach they took to the whole organisation of their project. Well done Wiggo, Brailsford et al. Fantastic. Fantastic.
You post in the Clinic - right?
So, does that mean your view is in the minority?

What "evidence" have you that points to TS riding clean? Are you confusing opinion with evidence? Your certainly entitled to it - but don't ignore that Sky abandoned their own principals by hiring people with questionable backgrounds -and when there are questions, they should be asked.
 
May 26, 2010
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Dr. Maserati said:
You post in the Clinic - right?
So, does that mean your view is in the minority?

What "evidence" have you that points to TS riding clean? Are you confusing opinion with evidence? Your certainly entitled to it - but don't ignore that Sky abandoned their own principals by hiring people with questionable backgrounds -and when there are questions, they should be asked.
ianfra obviously forgot the principles of journalism which he claimed to have been at one time.
 
Nov 25, 2010
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hiero2 said:
"This thread is about Wiggins." Without his team, Wiggins would not have won, this thread can not discuss Wiggins without discussing his team.

"No proof, no evidence"? Shucks, buddy, there's no proof and no evidence of 99% of the doping cases we know today happened. We have hearsay mostly - people telling stories. It just so happens that they are mostly the same stories, which gives them weight. In the case of Sky this year - Wiggins had a blood test earlier this year that an anti-doping expert said he thought suspicious. We also have uncommonly strong performances, that initially reminded everybody of the dominance of another historical team that was doping. For that matter, we could extend that "dominance" theory to Indurain, and find some similarity there, as well.

Until we get better testing, there is plenty of reason for suspicion. We hear conflicting evidence given by members of the peloton - so who do we believe? The guy who says things are getting pretty clean, or the guy who says the needle is still an essential part of the pro's diet?

I may be suspicious, but I find in retrospect that things may indeed be "cool". If this continues for a few years, and we don't see people getting popped who say they are clean - maybe I will watch a Tour without that nagging doubt in the back of my mind. Remember, I've been lied to for a LONG time - 2 decades now. And you have been lied to for that long also.
Bwahahahahaha - really? 99%???

Over-exaggeration FTW!!!!!
 
May 26, 2009
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Bonkstrong said:
Bwahahahahaha - really? 99%???

Over-exaggeration FTW!!!!!
Really? If I had to make a guess it's probably not that far off my own estimate... Note that this is a guess and not based on numbers. But I can motivate why I get such a high number:

If we accept the common view of the riders themselves the 90-ies and the early 2000's were extremely dirty with almost no-one riding clean.

I definitely don't think 5% of the peleton was caught and most certainly not by a positive test. Keep in mind the pro-peleton is not just those 180 guys at the TdF.

Now his 99% can be off a bit, maybe there were a few more clean riders than the riders themselves thought, but at first glance it's not the most ridiculous claim. But perhaps anyone can fill us in? Do we know how many doping cases there have been the last 15 years? We could extrapolate it against the peleton and then we have at least some data (with the huge caveat of the incusion of the clean populace).

Finally are we going to list those " I only tried it once" as one case, or are we looking at it year by year? Is Heras doping at USPS the same case as for Liberty Seguiros? If we say those are different cases (different teams, different doctors, different years) his number might even be to low.

And of course we could be so ridiculous to count every injection or swallowed pill, but that would be over the top.

But clearly, depending how you look at it, his 99% is not that ridiculous. It's definitely contestable though ;)
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Do you think Wiggins would be prepared to take a lie detector test to prove to all us f#####g w#####s that he won clean?

I don't think so.

I know for a fact that if I was clean I'd be prepared to do whatever it takes to prove once and for all that I was clean, even taking a lie detector test.

Some are saying that you cant prove that you are riding clean, maybe this is a simple way to put it to bed.

If your already one of the most tested riders what's one more simple test.
 
Aug 12, 2009
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Advancedone said:
Do you think Wiggins would be prepared to take a lie detector test to prove to all us f#####g w#####s that he won clean?

I don't think so.

I know for a fact that if I was clean I'd be prepared to do whatever it takes to prove once and for all that I was clean, even taking a lie detector test.

Some are saying that you cant prove that you are riding clean, maybe this is a simple way to put it to bed.

If your already one of the most tested riders what's one more simple test.
A lie detector test? Are you being serious?!? :eek:
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Absolutely.

I agree it may sound far fetched but hey, if people were accusing me of something I didn't do then I'd be more than happy to do whatever to shut them up.

Even Mr Armstrong should do it if he is so adamant that he was clean. Of course he never will, he's condemned himself to taking his dirty secrects to his grave, even if everyone else is happy to share them.:D

Instead of spitting the dummy and swearing at people Wiggins could calmly and rationally shut them up by this one simple process.

It would turn me from a doubter into a believer, however I'm sure I'll remain a doubter.
 
Oct 18, 2010
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I think Wiggo is clean as a whistle, and always has been. There is nothing to suggest otherwise, and never has been. He has always been one of the best TTers in the world, and he's simply gone from a good climber to a very good climber by extra training and a focus on weight. Add to this the brilliant attention to detail by Brailsford on the technical aspect of the sport (aero/weight etc.) and throwing money at a team enabling it to focus on support in the mountains, the emphasis on TT's in this tour and the absence of Contador and Shleck and his performance this year is really not that surprising.
 
Mar 4, 2010
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Bertie said:
I think Wiggo is clean as a whistle, and always has been. There is nothing to suggest otherwise, and never has been. He has always been one of the best TTers in the world, and he's simply gone from a good climber to a very good climber by extra training and a focus on weight. Add to this the brilliant attention to detail by Brailsford on the technical aspect of the sport (aero/weight etc.) and throwing money at a team enabling it to focus on support in the mountains, the emphasis on TT's in this tour and the absence of Contador and Shleck and his performance this year is really not that surprising.
you forgot to mention the hiring of 2 doping doctors. Not saying he's dirty, but not saying he's clean as a whistle either
 
Jul 12, 2012
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Bertie said:
I think Wiggo is clean as a whistle, and always has been. There is nothing to suggest otherwise, and never has been. He has always been one of the best TTers in the world, and he's simply gone from a good climber to a very good climber by extra training and a focus on weight. Add to this the brilliant attention to detail by Brailsford on the technical aspect of the sport (aero/weight etc.) and throwing money at a team enabling it to focus on support in the mountains, the emphasis on TT's in this tour and the absence of Contador and Shleck and his performance this year is really not that surprising.
It was to most.
 

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