2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 258km

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

To those comparing Gerrans to Kwiatkowski:

Yes, Kwiat didn't do much in the race, but which of the favourites did more? Gilbert and arguably Matthews, but thats it.

Also go watch the WC or Dwaars Door Vlaanderen to see Kwiat riding aggresively.

I was disappointed to see Martin not working in the break - presumably on team orders. That kind of negative racing doesn't reflect well on any of the team imo.

I'd say it reflects quite well on the team that won the race.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

To those comparing Gerrans to Kwiatkowski:

Yes, Kwiat didn't do much in the race, but which of the favourites did more? Gilbert and arguably Matthews, but thats it.

Also go watch the WC or Dwaars Door Vlaanderen to see Kwiat riding aggresively.

I was disappointed to see Martin not working in the break - presumably on team orders. That kind of negative racing doesn't reflect well on any of the team imo.

I'd say it reflects quite well on the team that won the race.

Yeah, great, negative racing is fine as long as you win. That'll keep the fans watching.

 

[SkyTears]

the most boring and overrated set of races in cycling, ardennes "classics"

 

[SeriousSam]

I don't know about you but all I want riders and teams to do is to try and win, failing that, try and get second, failing that, try and get third, etc. I would never want them to deviate from negative racing just to keep the fans watching. It's up to the organisers to ensure that what wins races is also entertaining.

If negative racing gets you wins, well done. Getting wins and placings is what the sport is about.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

This wheelsucking discussion is rediculous. AGR is a wheelsucking race. Kwiatkowski has done enough to not be labelled as a wheelsucker.

Looking at the top 10, the only one who stuck his nose into the wind was Gilbert.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

This wheelsucking discussion is rediculous. AGR is a wheelsucking race. Kwiatkowski has done enough to not be labelled as a wheelsucker.

Looking at the top 10, the only one who stuck his nose into the wind was Gilbert.

Valverde did as well. He closed the gap at the top of the Cauberg by himself, and then found himself on the front again when the chasing group caught the front three.

Of course, that doesn't fit the narrative on here though.

 

[Mr.White]

Could somebody tell me where great Dutch hope for the Ardennes Tom Dumoulin finished?

 

[Fork-in-the-Road]

Some great racing today. Over terrific-looking countryside. I find that 1,800 metres to the finish line after the Cauberg a bit of an anticlimax tho. Does it really work? Maybe, since all the favourites were there in the finale...

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

Some great racing today. Over terrific-looking countryside. I find that 1,800 metres to the finish line after the Cauberg a bit of an anticlimax tho. Does it really work? Maybe, since all the favourites were there in the finale...

He was in the second group that came in. Finished 26th.

 

[Akuryo]

Re:

Could somebody tell me where great Dutch hope for the Ardennes Tom Dumoulin finished?

26th, 18 seconds behind the winning group.

 

[marinoni]

Re:

I don't know about you but all I want riders and teams to do is to try and win, failing that, try and get second, failing that, try and get third, etc. I would never want them to deviate from negative racing just to keep the fans watching. It's up to the organisers to ensure that what wins races is also entertaining.

If negative racing gets you wins, well done. Getting wins and placings is what the sport is about.

I completely agree. If I were racing, I would do whatever is needed to win and negative racing has always been a viable way to win a race. My point is that there was a time when being aggressive could also, at times, pay off and get you a win. That doesnt seem to be the case these days. Attacking with 30 km left is like me arguing with my wife. Entertaining, even kind of cute, but ultimately futile.

 

[Velolover2]

Re:

Some great racing today. Over terrific-looking countryside. I find that 1,800 metres to the finish line after the Cauberg a bit of an anticlimax tho. Does it really work? Maybe, since all the favourites were there in the finale...

What about a middle ground solution? The finish is 600 metres after the top of Cauberg. Better than both a sprint on Cauberg and sprint of nearly twenty man after regrouping.

 

[jaylew]

Re:

Not sure why people are so happy Matthews didn't win ... he was the second strongest on the Cauberg, then immediately went to the front when they went over the top. Had he won the sprint it would have been tremendously deserved. Beaten, but a terrific ride.

This. Had Bling won, it would have been well-deserved, moreso even than Kwia who people seem to love. Took notes from Deg and AK and wasn't afraid to truly go for it. Good year so far for the versatile sprinters.

Valverde paid for his effort to close down Bling and Phil. On the other hand, Kwia, who was right there with him, smartly waited for someone to close the gap for him. Probably the difference between their podium places being reversed. I'm not really one to citicize someone for racing smartly but I can imagine the response had the situation been reversed.

I can't believe GVA didn't work with Fuglsang. Makes no sense. Give your team as many chances to win as possible

Purito, Henao, Mollema nowhere...

Betancur not horrible at 45th. Rounding into some kind of form? I don't think he's quite there but I'd love to see another early attack from him at FW. Hanging on for 3rd in 2013 after going so early on the Mur was amazing to see

I lot of hate for the Ardennes but I love them.

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

Go check out this year's Strade Bianche and Catalunya stage 5. You call Valverde wheelsucker, but who wheelsucked the most today? Don't know? I'll tell you, the winner

Almost everyone wheelsucks most of the time. But there are those who does it almost every time. Gerrans is probably the worst of the top riders today. And Valverde is also among the worst. I don't like the spaniard. Deal with it.

 

[el_angliru]

Is GVA the most tactically inept rider of all time? His wheelsucking of Fuglsang was an exact replica of the 2nd stage of the 2014 TdF stage 2 in Sheffield, where he eventually became 2nd (@34:30 into the clip):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXiUbNa1U4w

 

[Netserk]

Re: Re:

This. Had Bling won, it would have been well-deserved, moreso even than Kwia who people seem to love. Took notes from Deg and AK and wasn't afraid to truly go for it. Good year so far for the versatile sprinters.

Valverde paid for his effort to close down Bling and Phil. On the other hand, Kwia, who was right there with him, smartly waited for someone to close the gap for him. Probably the difference between their podium places being reversed. I'm not really one to citicize someone for racing smartly but I can imagine the response had the situation been reversed.

It seems like Kwiatkowski learned from last year where he was pulling Valverde and Gerrans and got outsprinted by both. It was quite predictable that a front group with Matthews and Valverde wouldn't work well enough together to stay away, so saving himself for the sprint was indeed very smart.

 

[Velolover2]

Re: Re:

Go check out this year's Strade Bianche and Catalunya stage 5. You call Valverde wheelsucker, but who wheelsucked the most today? Don't know? I'll tell you, the winner

Almost everyone wheelsucks most of the time. But there are those who does it almost every time. Gerrans is probably the worst of the top riders today. And Valverde is also among the worst. I don't like the spaniard. Deal with it.

Marcel Kittel? Almost helpless without a train to protect him. Can't even win a stage in Qatar when the sandy wind is blowing. He doens't like actual racing, only high-speed sprinting.

And I honestly don't see how Valverde is a less brave rider than Kwaitkowski.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I don't think there is much wrong with the current course. Any course is going to be at it's least selective when the weather is like it was today (i.e.perfect) and when it is less selective then some teams are going to have to show a bit more imagination if they want any success

 

[Gigs_98]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

I think kwiatkovski really deserved the win, but I´m mad to see that quicksteps tactic with martin who destroyed the nibali group paid out.

 

[Tank Engine]

Regarding the last 1.8km. It's better than finishing at the top of the Cauberg, because at least they start racing 2.8km from the finish, rather than 1km from the finish. I'm a game theorist, so I quite like the possibility of tactics coming into play at the top of the climb. Also, it rewards a mixture of talents. But overall, the course is

As for saying it was a Gerrans type win. It just was. That's more a reflection of the course than of Kwiatek as a rider. He attacks more often than a lot of the top riders. But 60-70 riders together at the foot of the final climb in an Ardennes classic is not great (maybe it makes a spectacle for spectators on the final climb, but for TV viewing it's no good). It's been like this for a few years now. They should try placing couple of really hard climbs (by Limbourg standards) in a section around 10-20km out with the Cauberg (or something similar) near the end to give the diesels, hard sprinters and puncheurs a chance

 

[Fork-in-the-Road]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

Regarding the last 1.8km. It's better than finishing at the top of the Cauberg, because at least they start racing 2.8km from the finish, rather than 1km from the finish. I'm a game theorist, so I quite like the possibility of tactics coming into play at the top of the climb. Also, it rewards a mixture of talents. But overall, the course is

As for saying it was a Gerrans type win. It just was. That's more a reflection of the course than of Kwiatek as a rider. He attacks more often than a lot of the top riders. But 60-70 riders together at the foot of the final climb in an Ardennes classic is not great (maybe it makes a spectacle for spectators on the final climb, but for TV viewing it's no good. It's been like this for a few years now. They should try placing couple of really hard climbs (by Limbourg standards) in a section around 10-20km out with the Cauberg (or something similar) near the end to give the diesels, hard sprinters and puncheurs a chance

No doubt that with the current parcours the race is going to be won by a puncheur. I think the recent winners prove that out, no?

 

[Fernandez]

Its must be hard for Valverde to loose so many races, but apart from that, the man is awesome. Its the only rider in the world that is ALWAYS, ALWAYS there. One week race? he is there for winning, one day race? hes there for winning, three weeks race? hes there also, world championships? you will find him in the pódium for sure. So dont blame too much at him and do blame all the thousands of others that never gets even a pódium.

Analize races from the chair its always easy.

 

[OlavEH]

Re: Re:

Go check out this year's Strade Bianche and Catalunya stage 5. You call Valverde wheelsucker, but who wheelsucked the most today? Don't know? I'll tell you, the winner

Almost everyone wheelsucks most of the time. But there are those who does it almost every time. Gerrans is probably the worst of the top riders today. And Valverde is also among the worst. I don't like the spaniard. Deal with it.

Marcel Kittel? Almost helpless without a train to protect him. Can't even win a stage in Qatar when the sandy wind is blowing. He doens't like actual racing, only high-speed sprinting.

And I honestly don't see how Valverde is a less brave rider than Kwaitkowski.

I tend to ignore pure sprinters like Kittel. Most of the races he and his type riders wins, are not interesting at all. The only time I watch completely flat stages is probably in the Tour and some times in the Giro.

The big one day classics, on the other hand, is someting completely different. Here I want to see action before the last 2 km. I don't want to see large groups of 30-40-50 riders in the finale of the cobblestone and Ardennes classics. And Valverde has shown for many years that he does little or nothing to create entartaining races in the classics.

As for Kwiatkowski, I think last years Strade Bianchi and World Champ showed that he can do something else than wheelsuck to victory. We'll see in the coming years if he can repeat that type of wins, or if he wins like he did today. If he does the latter, he will not be on my list of favorites in the future.

 

[DFA123]

Re: 2015 Ardennes Classics: 50th Amstel Gold Race - 4.19 - 2

I think kwiatkovski really deserved the win, but I´m mad to see that quicksteps tactic with martin who destroyed the nibali group paid out.

This is exactly how I feel. Pleased for Kwiatkowski who judged his effort well and executed the sprint perfectly. However, it's bad for cycling in general when negative tactics work; trying to kill a break 40km from the finish when you have the most powerful rider in the world in it, is awful to see.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Alejandro Valverde was once El Imbatido. His new nickname is El Boogerd de Murcia.