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2022 Tour of Norway, 2.Pro - 24th to 29th May

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Who will win the 2022 Tour of Norway?

  • Remco Evenepoel

    Votes: 41 70.7%

  • Tobias Halland Johannesen

    Votes: 6 10.3%

  • Carl Fredrik Hagen

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Tao Geoghen Hart

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Ethan Hayter

    Votes: 6 10.3%

  • Esteban Chaves

    Votes: 2 3.4%

  • Gianluca Brambilla

    Votes: 1 1.7%

  • Cian Uitjdebroeks

    Votes: 1 1.7%

  • Other rider

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • Total voters
    58
  • Poll closed .
Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

Jun 7, 2011
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Devil's Elbow said:
Even if I had included the Giro, I would have disregarded every stage prior to Zoncolan on account of the climbs being far easier than tomorrow's. It really isn't very relevant, you're harping on about what happened a year ago a lot for someone who posted this:
Click to expand...
Not sure i'm following. It was you who argued he failed in Lombardia and the OG's (dropped like a brick, remember?), but when i said Itzulia was more of a reference since 1/ more recent 2/ a stage race, you argued the climbs in Itzulia where too short... yet those in Lombardia were even shorter and the Mikuni wasn't much longer than those in Itzulia either. So what's your point here? And now you're arguing the climbs in the Giro were too short or not hard enough, but those in Lombardia were (or why did you bring it up), yet i'm the one who's cherrypicking? Amusing.

The climbs prior to Zoncolan might have been easier than that of tomorrow, but the competition most certainly wasn't. It takes a special kind of person to be more impressed with Johannessen in a significantly easier race such as Catalunya, than with Evenepoel in Itzulia. And yet all your beliefs about Johannessen are based on one good day with the pros, where the toughest climb was 13k 6% average and the competition was certainly no better. Evenepoel was only 7th best climber in Itzulia? Care to tell me how good Johannessen was in Catalunya then? Who won that again? Who were the guys in GC between spot 5 and 10 where Johannessen ended up? I find that very peculiar. But again, not saying Johannessen can't turn into this monster climber, maybe he already is, but your arguments and examples to go by, are rather weak imho. Winning Avenir in your senior year by 7 seconds and finishing Catalunya between O'Connor and Traeen so far doesn't warrant the level you seem to project onto him.
 
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Bolder

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
So. You are comparing the climbs in a 1day WT monument of 240km and a 230km olympic event against worldclass opposition, to stage 3 of the Tour of Norway against... Johannessen and Plapp. Ok.
You handily leave out the Giro. Any thoughts about his Zoncolan climb? As you said he wasn't really prepared, and yet, less than half a minute slower than Bardet, Vlasov and Carthy? You also left out Itzulia, his last stagerace this year, hence perhaps the best indicator of his current level. I think this was much more relevant than his efforts in Lombardia or Olympics, wouldn't you agree?
Click to expand...

This is a fascinating exchange. I hope Remco shows the same endurance today as you guys have arguing whether an apple or an orange is the better fruit.
 
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Devil's Elbow

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Logic-is-your-friend said:
but when i said Itzulia was more of a reference since 1/ more recent 2/ a stage race, you argued the climbs in Itzulia where too short... yet those in Lombardia were even shorter and the Mikuni wasn't much longer than those in Itzulia either.
Click to expand...
This is outright untrue.
Passo di Ganda - 9.3k at 7.1% - fastest climbing time (Pogacar) 23:15
Mikuni Pass - 6.7k at 10.1% - fastest climbing time (front group) 23:18
Arrate MTF - 4.4k at 9.3% - fastest climbing time 2022 (front group) 14:03, but Roglic and Gaudu climbed it in 12:44 a year prior. And that's one of the longest climbs in the race, taking at most 60% of the time the key climbs in both Lombardia and the Olympics did.

I have nothing more to say, no point in continuing this discussion when you're repeatedly twisting my words and, deliberately or not, basing your arguments on false claims.
 
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Red Rick

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Devil's Elbow said:
This is outright untrue.
Passo di Ganda - 9.3k at 7.1% - fastest climbing time (Pogacar) 23:15
Mikuni Pass - 6.7k at 10.1% - fastest climbing time (front group) 23:18
Arrate MTF - 4.4k at 9.3% - fastest climbing time 2022 (front group) 14:03, but Roglic and Gaudu climbed it in 12:44 a year prior. And that's one of the longest climbs in the race, taking at most 60% of the time the key climbs in both Lombardia and the Olympics did.

I have nothing more to say, no point in continuing this discussion when you're repeatedly twisting my words and, deliberately or not, basing your arguments on false claims.
Click to expand...
Ganda was the third 20 minute + climb of the day right?

I'm inclined to disregard Mikuni cause Evenepoel was just bad all around at that point.

What's clear to me is that at different points he's prepared for races quite differently, which makes it harder to guesstimate baselines for his level. Objectively his best long climbs were actually in the Giro last year, and if you wanna include Picon Blanco then be my guest.

I think after the Olympics Evenepoel gained weight and focused on raw power which led to him being his old self in TTs and hilly races again. This year he seems to have primarily improved his power spikes and steep hills, without improving his big climbs much.

I think Today and Suisse should be good to reset the baseline for long climbs.
 
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Logic-is-your-friend

Logic-is-your-friend

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Devil's Elbow said:
This is outright untrue.
Passo di Ganda - 9.3k at 7.1% - fastest climbing time (Pogacar) 23:15
Mikuni Pass - 6.7k at 10.1% - fastest climbing time (front group) 23:18
Arrate MTF - 4.4k at 9.3% - fastest climbing time 2022 (front group) 14:03, but Roglic and Gaudu climbed it in 12:44 a year prior. And that's one of the longest climbs in the race, taking at most 60% of the time the key climbs in both Lombardia and the Olympics did.

I have nothing more to say, no point in continuing this discussion when you're repeatedly twisting my words and, deliberately or not, basing your arguments on false claims.
Click to expand...
You're right, for some reason i had the other Lombardia route in mind, which has Sormano (where he gave the best impression in 2020) as the main climb. But i'm glad it gives you the easy way out to automatically disregard the rest of my post.
 
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