Teams & Riders Alberto Contador Discussion Thread

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

None of you watched the stage? Contador didn't even try to follow Porte. In other words, he let him go. Whether he could have followed him is a different matter, we simply don't know. Please don't make things up.

How can you tell if he let him go or wasn't able to follow? If he did let him go, then it looks like a major tactical blunder. Cost him the chance of an elusive stage win and lost him the opportunity to put Henao under pressure at a distance from the finish where it could have actually made a difference for the GC.

I don't believe Contador would have made such a tactical error - he must have been on the limit and was either afraid that if he followed Porte he would have blown up, or just couldn't respond to the attack at that moment.

We know Contador always tries to follow attacks, in fact he often blows up in the end because of that attitude. If he indeed decided Porte's attack was too tough to follow, then I welcome this change in tactics, but I doubt it. Most likely, he knew he was racing others and didn't want to possibly blow up trying to chase down Porte. Maybe he wanted to see if Henao would close the gap. Either way, these situations are never straightforward, there's always some tactical poker play involved. You don't chase down a non-threat while several of your close rivals are on your wheel, unless you're sure you won't crack and will drop your rivals. Otherwise there's no point bothering.

I don't think we are debating whether he was able to respond to Porte's attack in a vacuum per se, but whether he could keep up with Porte - in other words, who was the strongest climber. Thats the thing Im debating, at least.

Because, whether you want to admit it or not, Porte WAS the best climber today. It was pretty obvious he had one more gear than everyone else.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

That was pretty good. Perhaps he should have tried to drop Henao a little earlier, but it was good enough. Great to see that he could take back 10 seconds on Richie in the last k. Winning was always going to be hard, but now it does not look impossible. Pantano is a better domestique than the SKY-guys, but will it be enough to isolate Henao on the easier climbs around Nice?

I think it was a bit *meh*. Couldn't follow Porte's (very strong though) attack and got mere 10s for Dan Martin and Sky's #3-4 climber in climb that seemingly suited him well. But of course 2nd palce is very good and there is still time for TDF. But indeed without real monster peak I don't see currently him fighting anything more than lovest spot in TDF podium.

Well he didn't follow Porte. Ofcourse he would have conceded time to him even if he'd tried to go with him instantly. Afterall he and Henao were both unable to close down the gap he opened up. Anyway, I don't think it's completely bullocks to say that Porte had a greater degree of freedom today. He had. But I agree, that he was also the strongest today, so in the end he would probably have won one way or another.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

None of you watched the stage? Contador didn't even try to follow Porte. In other words, he let him go. Whether he could have followed him is a different matter, we simply don't know. Please don't make things up.

Ok, Im outie

Bye. Don't let the door hit you.

Its funny - you can seem so reasonable at most times, actually most of the time underrating Contador's chances, and then at other times subscribe to the baloney rhubroma just spewed. Hmm.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

None of you watched the stage? Contador didn't even try to follow Porte. In other words, he let him go. Whether he could have followed him is a different matter, we simply don't know. Please don't make things up.

How can you tell if he let him go or wasn't able to follow? If he did let him go, then it looks like a major tactical blunder. Cost him the chance of an elusive stage win and lost him the opportunity to put Henao under pressure at a distance from the finish where it could have actually made a difference for the GC.

I don't believe Contador would have made such a tactical error - he must have been on the limit and was either afraid that if he followed Porte he would have blown up, or just couldn't respond to the attack at that moment.

We know Contador always tries to follow attacks, in fact he often blows up in the end because of that attitude. If he indeed decided Porte's attack was too tough to follow, then I welcome this change in tactics, but I doubt it. Most likely, he knew he was racing others and didn't want to possibly blow up trying to chase down Porte. Maybe he wanted to see if Henao would close the gap. Either way, these situations are never straightforward, there's always some tactical poker play involved. You don't chase down a non-threat while several of your close rivals are on your wheel, unless you're sure you won't crack and will drop your rivals. Otherwise there's no point bothering.

Well maybe he just has forgot that you "mark" your greatest rivals when you are leading in time and when you're behind the goal should actually be to take as much of the same as possible. If indeed he was afraid he would've blown following Porte it to me is as same as not able to follow. For some here it means clever tactic, but it ain't for sure winning him the GC.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

None of you watched the stage? Contador didn't even try to follow Porte. In other words, he let him go. Whether he could have followed him is a different matter, we simply don't know. Please don't make things up.

How can you tell if he let him go or wasn't able to follow? If he did let him go, then it looks like a major tactical blunder. Cost him the chance of an elusive stage win and lost him the opportunity to put Henao under pressure at a distance from the finish where it could have actually made a difference for the GC.

I don't believe Contador would have made such a tactical error - he must have been on the limit and was either afraid that if he followed Porte he would have blown up, or just couldn't respond to the attack at that moment.

We know Contador always tries to follow attacks, in fact he often blows up in the end because of that attitude. If he indeed decided Porte's attack was too tough to follow, then I welcome this change in tactics, but I doubt it. Most likely, he knew he was racing others and didn't want to possibly blow up trying to chase down Porte. Maybe he wanted to see if Henao would close the gap. Either way, these situations are never straightforward, there's always some tactical poker play involved. You don't chase down a non-threat while several of your close rivals are on your wheel, unless you're sure you won't crack and will drop your rivals. Otherwise there's no point bothering.

Possible I guess, but I'm not convinced he could have gone with Porte, and I think it was definitely in his interests to do so. There was no reason for Henao or Martin to go with Porte - they were in the driving seat and had absolutely no need to close the gap - whereas Contador needed to gain nearly a minute for the GC or, as arguably the best climber in the field, try for the stage win. I think going with Porte would have helped both of those. Unless, of course, he would have gone into the red and cracked if he followed Porte; but, like you say, that kind of restraint would be a new tactical development for him!
I guess we'll never know for sure.

 

[Matteo.]

Re:

None of you watched the stage? Contador didn't even try to follow Porte. In other words, he let him go. Whether he could have followed him is a different matter, we simply don't know. Please don't make things up.

uh, sincerely i do not know laflo u_u

I should revise the race.
my first impression is that, once did not react to the attack of Porte. later, when he was already 50m ahead Alberto tried to recover but failed. so he worked a bit with henao and finally attacked in the last kilometer with his heart-grit and is gone.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Possible I guess, but I'm not convinced he could have gone with Porte
I guess we'll never know for sure.

Neither am I, my point is that we can't be sure & I can definitely see why he wouldn't want to jump on Porte's wheel right away.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Contador was trying to win the race and dropping Henao. Porte had just attacked and Porte increased his lead to 25-30 seconds. Its really all you need to know - I can't see why it even is debatable.

Oh well, I should probably stop. Just getting more and more annoyed over here.

 

[rhubroma]

In fairness, looking at Porte's attack again he had more in the tank. Still doesn't change the fact that he was 15 minutes back, which changes things. In fact it is rather odd that Porte lost so much time on that stage, but clearly is the best climber in this race.

 

[rhubroma]

Contador was trying to win the race and dropping Henao. Porte had just attacked and Porte increased his lead to 25-30 seconds. Its really all you need to know - I can't see why it even is debatable.

Oh well, I should probably stop. Just getting more and more annoyed over here.

2/3rds of that margin though went out precisely because Contador and Henao were watching each other and 1/3 came down in the last 500 meters or so.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

That was pretty good. Perhaps he should have tried to drop Henao a little earlier, but it was good enough. Great to see that he could take back 10 seconds on Richie in the last k. Winning was always going to be hard, but now it does not look impossible. Pantano is a better domestique than the SKY-guys, but will it be enough to isolate Henao on the easier climbs around Nice?

I think it was a bit *meh*. Couldn't follow Porte's (very strong though) attack and got mere 10s for Dan Martin and Sky's #3-4 climber in climb that seemingly suited him well. But of course 2nd palce is very good and there is still time for TDF. But indeed without real monster peak I don't see currently him fighting anything more than lovest spot in TDF podium.

Well he didn't follow Porte. Ofcourse he would have conceded time to him even if he'd tried to go with him instantly. Afterall he and Henao were both unable to close down the gap he opened up. Anyway, I don't think it's completely bullocks to say that Porte had a greater degree of freedom today. He had. But I agree, that he was also the strongest today, so in the end he would probably have won one way or another.

I just pointed the expecations here after yesterday where the consensus was today suits him much better and he should be able show (if in form) his glimbing superiority against more puncheurs like Henao and Martin. I don't think we saw superior performance against those names today.

The superior perfomance was seen in T-A today against fair bit more competitive glimbing field tbh.

 

[Squire]

Being caught in crosswinds has nothing to do with how well you're climbing.

I haven't watched a replay, but my impression when watching live was that Porte made three probing attacks, and on the third, there was no committed effort to follow him instantly. Porte for sure didn't 'drop' Contador in the normal sense of the word, but it's hard to tell if he could've followed him if he wanted to.

The chase to the line doesn't say much either, as Porte went as hard as he deemed sensible, while tactics dictated that Contador/Henao couldn't do that during the time they rode together.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

In fairness, looking at Porte's attack again he had more in the tank. Still doesn't change the fact that he was 15 minutes back, which changes things. In fact it is rather odd that Porte lost so much time on that stage, but clearly is the best climber in this race.

Thanks, that was my only point!

 

[rhubroma]

Re: Re:

In fairness, looking at Porte's attack again he had more in the tank. Still doesn't change the fact that he was 15 minutes back, which changes things. In fact it is rather odd that Porte lost so much time on that stage, but clearly is the best climber in this race.

Thanks, that was my only point!

You're welcome.

 

[Flamin]

Contador was trying to win the race and dropping Henao. Porte had just attacked and Porte increased his lead to 25-30 seconds. Its really all you need to know - I can't see why it even is debatable.

Oh well, I should probably stop. Just getting more and more annoyed over here.

2/3rds of that margin though went out precisely because Contador and Henao were watching each other and 1/3 came down in the last 500 meters or so.

Contador responded when Porte barely had a 30-40m gap, but simply didn't come an inch closer and had to sit down while Porte kept on dancing on the pedals. So lol at Porte getting 2/3rd of his margin because Contador and Henao were looking at each other. If anything, they worked together well.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Being caught in crosswinds has nothing to do with how well you're climbing.

I haven't watched a replay, but my impression when watching live was that Porte made three probing attacks, and on the third, there was no committed effort to follow him instantly. Porte for sure didn't 'drop' Contador in the normal sense of the word, but it's hard to tell if he could've followed him if he wanted to.

The chase to the line doesn't say much either, as Porte went as hard as he deemed sensible, while tactics dictated that Contador/Henao couldn't do that during the time they rode together.

Good post.

 

[buchanan]

Valv.Piti is 100% correct. Totally obvious he was unable to follow Porte. He certainly would have followed him if he had the strength - it would have helped his overall GC race tremendously. I wonder if the people saying he let Porte go understand anything at all about race tactics or have ever raced themselves. I doubt it.

 

[rhubroma]

Contador was trying to win the race and dropping Henao. Porte had just attacked and Porte increased his lead to 25-30 seconds. Its really all you need to know - I can't see why it even is debatable.

Oh well, I should probably stop. Just getting more and more annoyed over here.

2/3rds of that margin though went out precisely because Contador and Henao were watching each other and 1/3 came down in the last 500 meters or so.

Contador responded when Porte barely had a 30-40m gap, but simply didn't come an inch closer and had to sit down while Porte kept on dancing on the pedals. So lol at Porte getting 2/3rd of his margin because Contador and Henao were looking at each other. If anything, they worked together well.

This is getting a bit silly. Contador was trying to drop Henao and when he realized he couldn't, wasn't at that point going to bring Henao up to Porte. That's when his gap increased significantly. Porte was still with fuel in the tank though.

 

[GraftPunk]

Porte has achieved pretty much all he could given his time deficit, and could therefore leave everything on the road with no obligations for tomorrow. Whether or not Contador could have followed is irrelevant, he's in the unfortunate position of counting his matches, whereas LRP wasn't. I thought he raced in an extremely measured way today. YMMV.

 

[Pennino]

Unfortunately Berto couldn't match Porte's speed when he attacked. I was hoping for a Berto-Porte combine which would have smashed the others. Shame.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Contador was trying to win the race and dropping Henao. Porte had just attacked and Porte increased his lead to 25-30 seconds. Its really all you need to know - I can't see why it even is debatable.

Oh well, I should probably stop. Just getting more and more annoyed over here.

2/3rds of that margin though went out precisely because Contador and Henao were watching each other and 1/3 came down in the last 500 meters or so.

Contador responded when Porte barely had a 30-40m gap, but simply didn't come an inch closer and had to sit down while Porte kept on dancing on the pedals. So lol at Porte getting 2/3rd of his margin because Contador and Henao were looking at each other. If anything, they worked together well.

And if he hadn't been sick 3 times in the winter/spring, he had dropped Porte as well.

 

[sQiD]

Alberton doesn't look confortable on his Trek bike compared to Specialiez.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Alberton doesn't look confortable on his Trek bike compared to Specialiez.

Really? I think he looks better.

 

[KyoGrey]

We have to simply assume the reality: Contador is older every year, his hability to climb, timetrial and recover from efforts have been in progressive decline since 2014, which is his peak year post-sanction.

Having said that, there has to be al least a liitle ounce of optimism for the Tour in the sense that Quintana is riding the Giro first and Froome will be unstabilised by all the media-storm surrounding Sky. The rest of the rivals are yet to show they are on Contador's level in the global of a 3-week GT.

Also, never underestimate the heart of a champion. Contador has cycling intangibles that most GT-contenders of our generation lack.

 

[GraftPunk]

Re:

We have to simply assume the reality: Contador is older every year, his hability to climb, timetrial and recover from efforts have been in progressive decline since 2014, which is his peak year post-sanction.

Having said that, there has to be al least a liitle ounce of optimism for the Tour in the sense that Quintana is riding the Giro first and Froome will be unstabilised by all the media-storm surrounding Sky. The rest of the rivals are yet to show they are on Contador's level in the global of a 3-week GT.

Also, never underestimate the heart of a champion. Contador has cycling intangibles that most GT-contenders of our generation lack.

That being panache, though the 2016 Froome antics may indicate some aggression and future exploits on his part. Quintana I think is still finding himself as a (very very good) rider.