Andrew McQuaid accusses LeMond

[rata de sentina]

Andrew has a point... by clinic standerds LeMond is just as suspicious as the rest of them...blah blah etc.....
.

Clearly you know nothing about doping or "clinic standards", I suggest you read the Lemond thread before you start pontificating.

 

[unclem0nty]

Daft to compare pre-EPO doping with what went on from Indurain onwards.

Nothing that was on offer from 1945-90 transformed also-rans into Tour winners. As a Tour champion who straddled both eras - and who quite plainly didn't graduate to blood boosting - Lemond is a useful control test for EPO's corrosively astonishing effects.

In other news, Andrew McQuaid is a grubby little chip off the old block.

 

[rata de sentina]

I apologise because there are skidmarxs.. roadfreaks & mountainmen who make me dubious as to their bona fides.

There certainly does seem to be a new breed spawning at the moment, that make Polish seem almost coherent.

 

[Spider1964]

You can beleive anything you like about Lemond, but it would be good to make a few things clear.
Lemond was an amazing, natural talent. His VO2max is documented at 93. Compare that with LA's 82 (which he fudged up to around 84 over time on his web site). For Lemond to do what he did in his first Tour was extraordinary, but not unprecidented. Recall how Merckx faired in his first TdF. Lemond was also riding on arguably the strongest teams in cycling at the time with a team leader of great class.

Lemond did not test positive in an era where the drugs used were quaint compared to the 1990s epo/hgh+ period. There were tests for virtually anything Lemond might have taken, with the exception of blood boosting. No evidence by anyone ever involved with him has pointed to blood boosting or any form of cheating by him. Perhaps you have some facts to share that support your assertions?

There has been an acusation/threat made by LA that Lemond used epo and that LA would get people to testify to epo use by Lemond. Lemond called that bluff and nothing ever came of the attempted intimidation.

Lemond's performance in the Tours of the early 1990s and the 1993 Giro in particular are indicative of doping riders raising themselves to at least the natural ability level of Lemond with the added advantage that the dopers' hematocrits did not naturally drop off as the Tour/Giro moved through their three weeks.

That said, ona personal note, I rode one race with Lemond participating in 1983 just after his return from his first year as a pro with Renault. His class was amazing as a rider. Whilst I never had the opportunity to ride a race with LA, I saw him race on several occasions prior to the Barcelona Olympics and LA exhibited striking ability, but nowhere near Lemond's level.

Still, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Again Cimacoppi49... You show yourself to be a fair minded and valued poster. Kudos.

However... It's "unprecedented"...

 

[skimazk]

i agree it falls short of neccessary proof in a judicial setting, had he been a journalist he would have probably gotten away with it in the netherlands, but he isn't so yes he runs a risk of being prosecuted for libel.

But then he can allways sue LeMond back should he admit to dopeing / someone exposes him to dopeing, not sure if LeMond wants to run that risk

 

[Big Daddy]

i agree it falls short of neccessary proof in a judicial setting, had he been a journalist he would have probably gotten away with it in the netherlands, but he isn't so yes he runs a risk of being prosecuted for libel.

But then he can allways sue LeMond back should he admit to dopeing / someone exposes him to dopeing, not sure if LeMond wants to run that risk

Hey. Are you this ignorant to not comprehend what others are saying? Seriously, are you? These sort of new posts are all sounding like an amplified version of the same thing.

 

[Red Lobster]

so he would be 9,39 faster than lejarreta and 18,25 min faster than alcala, the only 2 others in the top 10 not linked to dopeing...

Er, are you seriously suggesting that there is anything odd about LeMond beating guys like Lejarreta and Alcala by those margins? What's next, expressing surprise at the margins Hinault had over guys like Alban or Van der Velde?

 

[Benotti69]

i agree it falls short of neccessary proof in a judicial setting, had he been a journalist he would have probably gotten away with it in the netherlands, but he isn't so yes he runs a risk of being prosecuted for libel.

But then he can allways sue LeMond back should he admit to dopeing / someone exposes him to dopeing, not sure if LeMond wants to run that risk

Your ignorance runeth over.

 

[Big Doopie]

A Neo pro THIRD?

omg. once again i stopped here since you clearly are wrong and have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[roadfreak44]

Pre EPO era. LeMond was a freak on a bike.

That is why the micro dopers try to dope to LeMonds level and claim they are clean. Not many ever got to LeMonds level naturally, ever.

such an insipid rationalization. We are known by the company we keep...Lemonds company was Guimard Hinault and Fignon. All dopers...there were a few that quit postal becuase they didnt want to dope but you either accepted the program or left. that was common in all the big teams...GREG DIDNT LEAVE> Hinault is in hiding from this fignon dead and Guimard likewise has nothing to say. The simple fact that greg beat so many dopers is not a testament to "natural talent" a freak as you would so breezily say., LA also was like that early on when he was beating pro triatheletes at 15 yrs...was he doing epo then? highly unlikely just as it is more than highly unlikely that lemond was just freakishly able to beat a peloton full of dopers..3rd in his firs tour as a neo pro????uh huh...Merckx was far more talented and gifted than lemond. Ther eisnt anyone in the cycling world who doesnt accept that as a simple fact. ..look at his palmares...HE WAS 55th IN HIS FIRST TOUR...I guess you get another boy scout merit badge for being a true believer that GL was far more naturally gifted than merckx and able to outride him with no experience to third place in th eotru...I do beleive in santa claus... i do.... .... Ultimately i think what is far more important than Lemond or Armstrong in this discussion and I think everyone agrees on this which at the heart of things is not about us believing each others theories or lemonds but is about cleaning up the sport and that is WADA and USADA. How were they so f^^^ing incompetent that the amazingly long list of cheats slipped through their fingers? It is exceedingly peculiar that neither you nor greg nor so many others are addressing this critcal issue. UCI is in charge of making rules for cycling the other two in charge of catching the cheats. Why would lemond blame the UCI when it was the other two that f***ed up? Ill tell you why....Greg needs a job;-) Usada desperately needs investigating...they turned up practically NOTHING in a ten year period. Tygart and his testers and wada are incompetent..that is a FACT...funny the incredibly honest and ethical Lemond doesnt mention that or go after them...Gregs MOb rule tactics are disturbing to say the least. Not a fan of Mcquaid but to go at it like this speaks volumes about squeaky cleans real character and a lot more than I can ever say about him. He should look at hsi own house in the uSA before goging after somebody elses...Tygart brought LA to judgement but only had to because his agency is so incompetent they couldnt catch him while he was doing it...lets hear it for squeaky clean and hypocrisy in the cycling world!

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Again Cimacoppi49... You show yourself to be a fair minded and valued poster. Kudos.

However... It's "unprecedented"...

I've always been a lousy speller. God invented spellcheck for me. It's only helpful wuen I use it. Thanks for the kind words.

 

[Carstenbf]

What I fail to understand about this bloody mess is this ..

Being President of the UCI is really a political position. Usually when your person becomes the center of mistrust and controversy, be it just or unjust, the right thing to do is to step down and leave the job for others, so as not to hurt the very cause you're hired to promote.

Of course, this will all come to pass sooner or later in my opinion. I'm just shocked that Mr. McQuaid isn't under intense pressure from within the UCI to step down. Sure, he could be squeaky clean and truthful about all his assertions, but what does it really help if half the cycling community doesn't trust him?

Clinging to his chair like this is only exasperating the notion of a mafia-like state of affairs within the governing body of cycling.

 

[oldcrank]

There were tests for virtually anything Lemond might have taken, with the exception of blood boosting.

Perhaps you missed my earlier posting:
www.ebcycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/lwf0006.jpg
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/greg-lemonds-fantasy-cycling-camp/8057
www.cyclingnews.com/features/photos/greg-lemonds-fantasy-cycling-camp/8058

 

[Benotti69]

Demand Media pays well for trolling

yeah whatever freak! Sell it along with a yellow band if that is possible

 

[Spider1964]

I've always been a lousy speller. God invented spellcheck for me. It's only helpful wuen I use it. Thanks for the kind words.

Now can you please use your flawed powers to counter the drivel posted above by our "Oct 2012" member roadfreak44. Cheers.

 

[shalgo]

Pat needs to look closer to home to find a "scumbag."

 

[fat_boy_fat]

some paragraphs added would help understanding …

So, in the end the controls are responsible for the doping? USADA and others not knowing what will be the next trick is their own fault? Not owning a crystal ball full of wisdom make them guilty? Troll-****!

Shall that divert me from the fact, that cheats remain cheats, whether they are caught or not?

Nice try, but no cigar …

 

[Cimacoppi49]

Lemond was a more naturally gifted athete than Merckx. No question at all about that. While we will never know with certainty how many more Tours Lemond might have won absent the years lost to his hunting accident and the advent of the epo era after Lemond's final Tour win in 1990, I reckon that he would have won five, maybe six. But, again, we'll never know.

As for Lance the tri-guy. Apples and oranges. Different disciplines and skill sets. Also, back then tri did not have comparable competitor depth as compared to pro cycling at the same time.


[/B]

such an insipid rationalization. We are known by the company we keep...Lemonds company was Guimard Hinault and Fignon. All dopers...there were a few that quit postal becuase they didnt want to dope but you either accepted the program or left. that was common in all the big teams...GREG DIDNT LEAVE> Hinault is in hiding from this fignon dead and Guimard likewise has nothing to say. The simple fact that greg beat so many dopers is not a testament to "natural talent" a freak as you would so breezily say., LA also was like that early on when he was beating pro triatheletes at 15 yrs...was he doing epo then? highly unlikely just as it is more than highly unlikely that lemond was just freakishly able to beat a peloton full of dopers..3rd in his firs tour as a neo pro????uh huh...Merckx was far more talented and gifted than lemond. Ther eisnt anyone in the cycling world who doesnt accept that as a simple fact. ..look at his palmares...HE WAS 55th IN HIS FIRST TOUR...I guess you get another boy scout merit badge for being a true believer that GL was far more naturally gifted than merckx and able to outride him with no experience to third place in th eotru...I do beleive in santa claus... i do.... .... Ultimately i think what is far more important than Lemond or Armstrong in this discussion and I think everyone agrees on this which at the heart of things is not about us believing each others theories or lemonds but is about cleaning up the sport and that is WADA and USADA. How were they so f^^^ing incompetent that the amazingly long list of cheats slipped through their fingers? It is exceedingly peculiar that neither you nor greg nor so many others are addressing this critcal issue. UCI is in charge of making rules for cycling the other two in charge of catching the cheats. Why would lemond blame the UCI when it was the other two that f***ed up? Ill tell you why....Greg needs a job;-) Usada desperately needs investigating...they turned up practically NOTHING in a ten year period. Tygart and his testers and wada are incompetent..that is a FACT...funny the incredibly honest and ethical Lemond doesnt mention that or go after them...Gregs MOb rule tactics are disturbing to say the least. Not a fan of Mcquaid but to go at it like this speaks volumes about squeaky cleans real character and a lot more than I can ever say about him. He should look at hsi own house in the uSA before goging after somebody elses...Tygart brought LA to judgement but only had to because his agency is so incompetent they couldnt catch him while he was doing it...lets hear it for squeaky clean and hypocrisy in the cycling world!

 

[Choocher]

Clear as Mud

Lets be clear about something . Lemond is a fraud and a liar. I dont think greg wants to punch Mcquaid in the face but he does want the job...Its clear in gregs mind there is no one but him that can save cycling. Greg the great clean crusader.
problem is we do have to question motives here and FACTS...Heres a guy who as a neo pro with no grand tour experience who was third in his first tour. A Neo pro THIRD? never happened before or since except with raimundas...who was found to be positive. Merckx was 45th in his first. Indurain 58th armstrong 55th Hinault 40th...but squeaky clean Greg riding for Old school Guimard places third but hes clean? tahts a Good one !!!...Guimard had a "program" guided himault fingnon and lemond...I suppose the ever so clean greg never noticed anything or did anything while there. Funny he has never spoken of Guimard, Fignons Positives or Hinaults steroid road rage. ..mmm hmmm. From my years racing I was always able to tell the dopers. The ones whose performances stood out above and beyond the average top pros . Gregs first year performance with no experience whatsoever in the tour landing third is not exemplary its obviously unbeleivable but he did have a good doctor and old school guimard whoi always got results just like bruyneel.... Lotsa boy scouts on here who want to believe otherwise but greg has always been an unethical individual. Remember when he chased down Jaques Boyer in the worlds becuase he didnt want him to win? He said it was because "He thought Boyer had said some things about him in french during an interview but he didnt know what they were." When i read that I realized he was fundamentally paranoid and still is. When we look at the long list of dopers that have been caught by uci and wada for lemond to say they are not doing their job is a joke. they also instituted the biological passport which creates baseline parameters to judge riders performances. Lemond is whining about the UCI what about his buddy travis at USADA? If we want to talk about incompetence lets put that horse in the right stable...where in the hell was Tygart the hundreds of times that LA competed in the usa?
Not to mention levi hincpaie and the dozens of others of whom NONE usada caught.. Why werent they doing their job? I am truly upset that they let a cheat like armstrong and all the others get away with that and they did let him. LA wasnt in control of doping tests in the usa , USADA was so why arent they being held accountable? They totally screwed up. What we have seen is a tacit admission that they couldnt catch him because they werent smart enough...translation...incompetent...
Meanwhile where is greg? Where are his complaints about their incompetence? He doesnt want THAT job ;-)
What about WADA? they are the ones that actually administer the tests . They took hair samples from armstrong...It is impossible to cheat on hair samples...if there was epo in his hair samples why didnt they report it?
why sint greg whining about wada? he doesnt want that job... The uci is a governing body not a testing body. Lemond knows this so why is he crowing so loudly? He wants the job but methinks he protesteth too much. His other teamate Fignon was a known doper. Lemond set a record speed for a time trial beating fignon who admitted he was doping after! Yet Greg somehow miracoulously won by nealry towe seconds a kilometer!!!unbleivable! yep it is...
Hinault was famous for his steroid induced road rage but greg who beat them both was a boy scout? are you idiots??? Raimundas was the ONLY OTHER RIDER who placed third coming from nowhere and the uci was critical of him and he was caught(once again they did the job they have done all along)the world is populated with true believers but sorry guys your idol is made of brass...not gold...There is nothing Lemond can or would do that would make thing s any better. He just wants the limelight again..truth is WADA and USADA are far more incompetent than the uci if they administer hundreds of tests but cant catch a cheat. This isnt hyperbole,..its a simple fact...Lemond is a liar. His performances "out" him clearly...

If clarity is your main purpose, it might be a good idea to read up on your cycling history before making such a blanket assertion about riders coming from "nowhere." 1984 was Lemond's 4th season as a pro. Before EPO, the best GT riders often rose to the top at a much younger age than they have during the EPO era. Here is a link that might catch you up to speed in regards to Lemond's progression of results as a pro.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

This makes for a useful distraction from discussing McQuaid's corruption and mismanagement of the doping issue.

Throw in a few trolls to help stoke the fire, anyone would think that this was designed to take people away from the real issue.

 

[Spider1964]

SNIPPED... Because it was a poorly spelt, poorly punctuated trolling post

You sound angry roadfreak.. Angry. Confused. Misguided. Anger is such a difficult emotion to keep in check. Move on.

Greg is not your enemy.

The truth is.

Lance was a cheater.

Greg was not.

If you have PROOF that he was... Riches await.

 

[thirteen]

This makes for a useful distraction from discussing McQuaid's corruption and mismanagement of the doping issue.

Throw in a few trolls to help stoke the fire, anyone would think that this was designed to take people away from the real issue.

and yet it just helps people here hone on what's important: McQuaid's corruption.

thank you, trolls!

 

[Cloxxki]

Microchip, you reading this?

Master Henricus : "I appreciate the co-operative thinking Andy, but I think you better delete that tweet. Greg quit riding like 2 decades ago, even I can't have him test positive anymore." - very sad frustrated face.

 

[rkp5097]

Paragraphed

Roadfreak's post was one of the maddest I've read, and that's saying something. To stand out as a nutcase in a cycling forum takes true talent - see natural talent does exist, Roadfreak. Though I'd rather have Greg's
I understand Roadfreak claims to be an occasional ghostwriter. I wonder who you can ghostwrite for and not use paragraphs

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Roadfreak44 - are you a McQuaid or a non-McQuaid?

Do you want me to confess for ya?