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Teams & Riders Cian Uijtdebroeks - From the wetlands to the top of cycling

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Rackham

Rackham

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red_flanders said:
Could also be that he's not being totally candid now. Who knows.


This is the right take until some more compelling evidence one way or another surfaces. Leaping to conclusions about anyone or anything at this point seems ill-considered.
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Well, there's the presumption of innocence with regards to Bora considering the proof of wrongdoing never materialized. Right?

People can't just throw around wild imaginings & speculative theories about bullying when there's absolutely nothing to back it up & the rider himself denies it.

Case closed.
 
red_flanders

red_flanders

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Rackham said:
Well, there's the presumption of innocence with regards to Bora considering the proof of wrongdoing never materialized. Right?

People can't just throw around wild imaginings & speculative theories about bullying when there's absolutely nothing to back it up & the rider himself denies it.

Case closed.
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Yes, we don't know anything. My point was not to assert he's not being candid, just to use that possibility as an example to show why speculation is pointless. We're not in a court, we don't need a presumption of innocence or proof. That seems a bit much. We should however, have some actual evidence, not just reports and rumors with no names attached.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

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We know all three parties eventually came to an agreement that terminated the contract at the end of the year. We know Uijtdebroeks unilaterally broke the contract at the beginning of December before signing with Jumbo. We do not know the official reason for the initial termination of contract, and the only explanation that has been rumoured is not very credible at this point.

We know that when Jumbo signed Van Aert that the rider wrongfully terminated his contract.

Until a credible (and official) explanation has been offered, the reasonable presumption is that this is a Van Aert 2.0.
 
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Devil's Elbow

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Volderke said:
I see many interpretations / opinions that seem to drift quite a bit from the reality, so I thought I give it one last try:
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Volderke said:
Cian thought the only way out was a team buying out his contract (Trek, Ineos), until someone told him that the context (e.g. the whatsapp) could be enough reason for Cian to unilaterally break his contract and go wherever he wanted to go.
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Volderke said:
Visma said they didn't want to buy him out, but as they got info about the bullying, they saw what Cian's agent saw (no reason to pay for the buy-out) and thus the deal with Visma was settled (unilaterally)
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Volderke said:
Thijs Zonneveld mentioned the existence of the Whatsapp (a group that Cian confirmed to exist, by the way...!). A smart Cian will not say this directly to the press (especially not if a court case is looming, and also not if the case is settled, like how it is now). But his entourage knows, and rumours inevitably spread.
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Volderke said:
Zonneveld got inside info and did what a good journalist has to do: report it.
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Volderke said:
Those accusations were never made in public, by Cian, but 100% sure the accusations were the very basis of Cian opting (/daring) to unilaterally terminating the contract.
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I don’t think there has ever been a post with quite as many talking points that aged like milk…
 
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theyoungest

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Tim Cahill said:
Thijs Zonneveld's sources, based on his past articles and scoops seem to be based in the Jumbo Visma camp. He appears to have been had this time around, fed some nonsense in order to engineer a transfer.
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Uijtdebroeks doesn't know where the rumours came from (according to Valter) but luckily this forum does :)

The evil plotters at Visma just forgot to tell him. They also forgot to tell Valter not to share the fact that Cian doesn't know. Or maybe this is all part of the evil plan!
 
Volderke

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Devil's Elbow said:
I don’t think there has ever been a post with quite as many talking points that aged like milk…
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I haven't followed lately. Please rebut all of my talking points, I don't care if I'm right or wrong, but ofcourse I'm curious to know from you what's wrong and what are your sources.

For all we know, Bora / Cian decided to agree to separate and they obviously agreed not to air dirty laundry in public. Who knows for sure there was a whatsapp group, and even if there wasn't any within Bora, who knows someone picked up whatsapp between some Bora riders. Ofcourse that wouldn't be necessarily an official Bora whatsapp group but again, these things can happen / exist without us ever knowing for sure.

So Denk can be right there is no whatsapp group in the team, and Zonneveld can be right at the same time claiming there was a whatsapp group (with certain riders) in which they joked / bullied Cian. All of these things aren't mutually exclusive. But you know best.
 
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Netserk

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The question of import is whether or not it was valid and by the rules when Uijtdebroeks unilaterally terminated his contract in the beginning of December. The rest is secondary to that, and should be seen in the light of that. Was there a whatsapp group and was he "bullied"? That's a question of degree, and the relevant threshold for a positive answer to that is whether or not it was severe enough to invalidate his contract.
 
Netserk

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Berniece said:
Since we don't know the number that Bora and Jumbo agreed upon we don't really have an idea how good the case was of Uijtdebroeks. If the number is low, Uijtdebroeks had a good case to terminate his contract, if the number is close to 1M, he didn't and Jumbo just paid.
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As of this moment, do you believe that it is more likely than not that Uijtdebroeks terminated his contract and signed with Jumbo by the book?
 
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Netserk

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The Clogger

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Lequack said:
‘He can win a Grand Tour’ – Vingegaard takes Uijtdebroeks under his wing at Visma

www.cyclingnews.com

‘He can win a Grand Tour’ – Vingegaard takes Uijtdebroeks under his wing at Visma

Tour champion and young teammate lead the line for Dutch squad at Tirreno-Adriatico
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“I think he’ll perhaps have a supporting role like in Gran Camiño, but he might go to the finish sometimes too. He’ll go full gas in the time trial and then we’ll see our tactics,” Vingegaard said.

:cool:
 
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