Contador positive!!!!!

[roundabout]

I also find it pretty funny that some Spanish scientists are so quick to dismiss the possibility, and conveniently omit the fact the Clenbuterol is still widely used, and legal, in agriculture. It seems they'd rather just toss Bertie under the bus (since he's probably a doped up cyclists) than go through the effort to explain that there are actually acceptable levels of Clenbuterol (and a lot of other scary-sounding substances) laced through the food chain.

So how much "legal" steak would Contador have to consume if the legal limit is at 0.1 microgram per kilo of muscle?

 

[krebs303]

So how much "legal" steak would Contador have to consume if the legal limit is at 0.1 microgram per kilo of muscle?

this guy has done the math
Contador – cheat or bad meat?

 

[roundabout]

5.4 kilos? IIRC Cerron only bought 3.5

Doesn't look like "legal" meat to me. Somebody is going to be in trouble.

 

[Joe in LA]

this guy has done the math
Contador – cheat or bad meat?

At the end of the article, the author assumes that the clen could not have come through an autologous blood transfusion because, he asserts, autologous blood transfusions are detectible and would have been caught. Seems like that is a bad underlying assumption.

 

[krebs303]

5.4 kilos? IIRC Cerron only bought 3.5

Doesn't look like "legal" meat to me. Somebody is going to be in trouble.

The 0.1 nano gram is for flesh. which does not take in to account any fat which does not rid itself of clen nearly as quickly

 

[roundabout]

The 0.1 nano gram is for flesh. which does not take in to account any fat which does not rid itself of clen nearly as quickly

so how much clen is in the fat then?

this link doesn't suggest there's more clen in the fat

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB...sidue_Limits_-_Report/2009/11/WC500012570.pdf

In cattle, the pattern of residue depletion was similar to that of horses with highest residues encountered in liver and kidney and very low residues in muscle and fat.

 

[krebs303]

so how much clen is in the fat then?

this link doesn't suggest there's more clen in the fat

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB...sidue_Limits_-_Report/2009/11/WC500012570.pdf

as the study shows clen lasts longer in the liver,eyes and fat
The pharmacokinetics and residues of clenbuterol in veal calves

 

[Escarabajo]

Well, he could have done what Zirbel did and just said "I have no idea how it got there". You see how that worked out for him.

Personally, I think it's silly to put all of the eggs in the meat angle, when the reality it that it could be from almost anything. If you were to take a random sample of 100 people and test them for those levels of Clenbuterol, I imagine you'd end up with some pretty surprising results.

I also find it pretty funny that some Spanish scientists are so quick to dismiss the possibility, and conveniently omit the fact the Clenbuterol is still widely used, and legal, in agriculture. It seems they'd rather just toss Bertie under the bus (since he's probably a doped up cyclists) than go through the effort to explain that there are actually acceptable levels of Clenbuterol (and a lot of other scary-sounding substances) laced through the food chain.

Actually I agree with you here.

However the odds for Contador telling the truth look very small for any angle and probability range that I use.

I hate it that from the legal stand point of view riders are forced to pick a story. After so much evaluation the public and the media always find flaws in their theories.

 

[krebs303]

also in a previous post it was stated that 45,000 cattle were tested for clen. 2.6 million cattle were slaughtered in the UK alone in 2009.

It was veal that was bought which needs to be brought to market in 20 to 24 weeks would bring a big incentive to "fatten the calf" with a product that would produce more lean meat. If fines are probably the same for beef and veal. with the higher price of veal it might be cost affective.

I'm still on the fence but blood transfusion of a drug that could be easily be detected bothers me.

I understand about the plastizer increase on the rest day and don't doubt a "boost" but they could be independent.

and last the justice of it all.
your guilt or innocence should not be dependent on which lab your sample is sent to. if they have a minimum for accredited labs is this not a threshold?

And last
Ricco's girl friend is popped for EPO and her second sample comes back 10% under the threshold so is exonerated But still should EPO

 

[Berzin]

The UCI has promised a resolution to this situation within 8-10 days.

So far, the deal is a 3 month ban which will end in late November, and Contador will keep his Tour victory-(link is in Spanish)-

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/depo...ar/Contador/elpepidep/20101002elpepidep_2/Tes

 

[hrotha]

The UCI has promised a resolution to this situation within 8-10 days.

So far, the deal is a 3 month ban which will end in late November, and Contador will keep his Tour victory-(link is in Spanish)-

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/depo...ar/Contador/elpepidep/20101002elpepidep_2/Tes

Wow.

McQuaid told Carlos Castaño, president of the Spanish Cycling Federation, that "in 8 or 10 days" the UCI will have made a decision about Contador's scientific dossier, and confided to him that only the leak of the test data to German TV had put the negotiated solution to the problem at risk.
A Carlos Castaño, el presidente de la Federación Española de Ciclismo, McQuaid le dijo que "en 8 o 10 días" la UCI habrá tomado una decisión sobre el dossier científico de Contador. Y le confió que solo la filtración de los datos del análisis a la televisión alemana había puesto en peligro la solución pactada al problema.

The idea of a discreet solution to [the] problem arose from the moment the report of the Koln laboratory became known. A phone call from UCI antidoping coordinator Mario Zorzoli to Contador and a meeting in Puertollano (Ciudad Real [Spain]) last week put in motion a strategy that included a provisional suspension and a route away from the usual communication and management procedures.
La idea de una solución discreta para un problema (...) surgió desde el momento en que se conoció el informe del laboratorio de Colonia. Una llamada telefónica del coordinador antidopaje de la UCI, Mario Zorzoli, a Contador y una reunión en Puertollano (Ciudad Real) la última semana de agosto sirvieron para poner en marcha una estrategia que incluía una suspensión provisional y una ruta alejada de los procedimientos habituales de comunicación y gestión.

And when I say "Wow" I mean "Not surprised".

 

[bobs nob]

It's a maaaaaadhooooooouuuuuuse.....!!!!!

Sorry, couldn't find the time to plow through the 1000+ post thread....Here's all I got:

No one is a bigger fan of Alberto than me. And it's a terrible disappointment (on the one hand) But having said that....

.....really gang? Really?

Please tell me the vast majority of AC lovers AND haters weren't surprised. If you were, then wake up. If you still think that others are totally clean, you are just living in a fool's paradise. Sorry. Didn't mean to sound so hateful.

None of us ought to be surprised by this sort of news regarding ANY other top ProTour rider.

Yeah, I am sad and wished it could have been someone else because I am convinced they are all doing this type of stuff as part of their 'training'. And I didn't mind keeping one toe in the ignorance is bliss aisle of the ProTour 'See B.S.' pharmacy with respect to AC. Now he has stepped on that toe and it hurts (a little).

 

[Ferminal]

Wow.

McQuaid told Carlos Castaño, president of the Spanish Cycling Federation, that "in 8 or 10 days" the UCI will have made a decision about Contador's scientific dossier, and confided to him that only the leak of the test data to German TV had put the negotiated solution to the problem at risk.
A Carlos Castaño, el presidente de la Federación Española de Ciclismo, McQuaid le dijo que "en 8 o 10 días" la UCI habrá tomado una decisión sobre el dossier científico de Contador. Y le confió que solo la filtración de los datos del análisis a la televisión alemana había puesto en peligro la solución pactada al problema.

The idea of a discreet solution to [the] problem arose from the moment the report of the Koln laboratory became known. A phone call from UCI antidoping coordinator Mario Zorzoli to Contador and a meeting in Puertollano (Ciudad Real [Spain]) last week put in motion a strategy that included a provisional suspension and a route away from the usual communication and management procedures.
La idea de una solución discreta para un problema (...) surgió desde el momento en que se conoció el informe del laboratorio de Colonia. Una llamada telefónica del coordinador antidopaje de la UCI, Mario Zorzoli, a Contador y una reunión en Puertollano (Ciudad Real) la última semana de agosto sirvieron para poner en marcha una estrategia que incluía una suspensión provisional y una ruta alejada de los procedimientos habituales de comunicación y gestión.

And when I say "Wow" I mean "Not surprised".

It's amazing that if there wasn't a leak, this would have gone down as another top UCI sham, someone would have told us 5 years later what happened. Reading that though it still may happen... Hopefully WADA get it to CAS. Regardless of whether or not the prohibited substance got there intentionally or through accidental ingestion, this needs to be played out officially, not the UCI and Spanish feds making the rules as they go along.

 

[nicholaaaas]

Why. Even if you guess wrong, every time that Contador brings a new parameter or event to the table he is bringing a new uncertainty, and therefore reducing the chance of the final outcome to happen. That's how humans think anyway. So why do you think a lot of people is putting to doubt Contador’s theory? At this point I can bet you money that there are a lot of people that stopped believing in his innocence because of the story he told. The less you say the better for him. But you see that's how a guilty brain operates; they are always trying too hard to find a story for people to believe and at the end it makes it worse.

After all I feel a little bad for Contador because I like the guy.

you're an idiot. by your reasoning... nothing that has ever happened actually happened. you know cause the probability of it happening is next to nothing

 

[Protein]

I have a new theory.

Different illegal drugs are often handled by the same people or put in the same containers. It could well be the case that traces of clenbuterol were on another illegal substance that Contador was taking. It could have been some masking agent for testosterone or human growth hormone or absolutely anything.

Sort of makes sense.

 

[hfer07]

The UCI has promised a resolution to this situation within 8-10 days.

So far, the deal is a 3 month ban which will end in late November, and Contador will keep his Tour victory-(link is in Spanish)-

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/depo...ar/Contador/elpepidep/20101002elpepidep_2/Tes

thanks for the link
This is just another example of how UCI keeps fvcking up the sport-and Pat McQuaid's wisdom on how to resolve problems: a mere 3 month "break" to AC and all this issue will be forgotten by the beginning of the next year's season.....

 

[Berzin]

In retrospect, the alleged positive test by Armstrong in the Tour de Suisse a few years ago that was supposedly swept under the rug by the UCI doesn't seem so far-fetched now, does it?

 

[Protein]

I do agree that it would be ironic if Contador's reputation is tarnished for this and not his extraordinary 2009 TdF performance. I don't think anyone will be able to dope to his 09 level ever again - it should go down as the concord of doping performances.

 

[Berzin]

I do agree that it would be ironic if Contador's reputation is tarnished for this and not his extraordinary 2009 TdF performance. I don't think anyone will be able to dope to his 09 level ever again - it should go down as the concord of doping performances.

No, you must have Contador 2009 confused with Armstrong 2009, and the whole "Cyclism" era circa 1999-2005.

Had to set you straight on that one.

 

[Protein]

No, you must have Contador 2009 confused with Armstrong 2009, and the whole "Cyclism" era circa 1999-2005.

Had to set you straight on that one.

I think you show the problem. Everyone was so busy celebrating Armstrong's fail that year that they brushed over the fact Contador produced power in 09 that Armstrong has never achieved at his peak.

That Contador could beat a doped Armstrong by so much, and win a TT against the greatest time trialer of all time, was incredible. He wasn't the same rider in 2010, yet now he faces scrutiny.

Maybe it's time we all admitted we took our eyes off the ball.

 

[offbyone]

The UCI has promised a resolution to this situation within 8-10 days.

So far, the deal is a 3 month ban which will end in late November, and Contador will keep his Tour victory-(link is in Spanish)-

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/depo...ar/Contador/elpepidep/20101002elpepidep_2/Tes

I can't imagine how they can get away with that. Are they going to lift Fuyu's ban?

Should be interesting to see the reaction from the peloton. I would think that a lot of guys caught doping who were given suspensions after they denied it are going to be pretty ****ed about this. Especially considering how public this is.

 

[scribe]

The UCI has promised a resolution to this situation within 8-10 days.

So far, the deal is a 3 month ban which will end in late November, and Contador will keep his Tour victory-(link is in Spanish)-

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/depo...ar/Contador/elpepidep/20101002elpepidep_2/Tes

That'd be a load of crap.

I guess contador is the golden boy for certain.

 

[Berzin]

I can't imagine how they can get away with that. Are they going to lift Fuyu's ban?

Should be interesting to see the reaction from the peloton. I would think that a lot of guys caught doping who were given suspensions after they denied it are going to be pretty ****ed about this. Especially considering how public this is.

Unfortunately no one wants to hear from clean riders who don't win anything. Those riders don't have any clout.

And the cats with the clout are going to remain quiet like they always do.

Let's face it, if Bradley Wiggins comes out and makes a declaration against Contador, who's going to listen to him? NOBODY. Who's going to care? NO ONE. What impact will it have? NONE.

 

[Escarabajo]

you're an idiot. by your reasoning... nothing that has ever happened actually happened. you know cause the probability of it happening is next to nothing

With all due respect I did not call you an idiot.

Please be more rspectful to other members. I treat everybody with respect and I expect the same thing from everybody in this forum.

Please read again the probabilities of having contamination by Clen in the meat in Europe. At least try reading the other posts. That's how probabilities work and things still happen in this life. just like plane crashes. Accidents still happen. Just like the fire in the BP offshore rig. that was probably one in a billion and still happened. The fact that there is bad history of doping in cycling does not help Contador. Sorry if it does not fit your criteria.

And yes the probability of what Contador said of happening is very, very low whether you likeit or not. It is not my fault. Other scientists will look at these probabilities also.

Again try to be more respectful with other members.
Thanks.

 

[Maxiton]

I have a new theory.

Different illegal drugs are often handled by the same people or put in the same containers. It could well be the case that traces of clenbuterol were on another illegal substance that Contador was taking. It could have been some masking agent for testosterone or human growth hormone or absolutely anything.

Sort of makes sense.

OK, I'm all about this theory. "I took no Clen. This result is impossible. Unless of course that idiot soigneur put the masking agent in that empty clen bottle. Damn!"

However, for once I'm in favor of the UCI solution: a three month ban for Contador and then back to normal for next season. Seems appropriate. And hopefully they will come up with some reasonable thresholds for blood levels so that this doesn't happen again. Anti-drug rules should be for the sole purpose of preventing race results being skewed or riders health put at risk. Beyond that who gives a rats posterior what they swallow/snort/smoke.