Juan Ayuso discussion thread

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Krzysztof_O

Krzysztof_O

Jul 7, 2013
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Berniece said:
Okay then we just stop believing anything journalists say from now on. It's not like Ayuso or UAE is actually going to communicate about this, because they more than likely can't due to an NDA.
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I think you should know the difference between proven facts and speculation. Both are parts of journalism. The fact is that Ayuso is a bad teammate who just broke his contract, his contract clause is just a speculation.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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Krzysztof_O said:
I think you should know the difference between proven facts and speculation. Both are parts of journalism. The fact is that Ayuso is a bad teammate who just broke his contract, his contract clause is just a speculation.
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Like I said, this journalist has been saying this for years. Even before the TDF of 2024. I feel there's more truth to such statements when a journalist says it. And if it's true, you can still say that he's a bad teammate, but he has all the right to go for his own glory, when the person he should be helping doesn't like him.
 
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topcat

topcat

Jul 4, 2016
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Ayuso is free. Ok he didn't really help the Pog (who is winning everything anyway). We don't know what his UAE contract stated or what team UAE instructed him to do. We know Ayuso cannot be broken. It's time to align his values with another team.
 
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YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
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Berniece said:
It's his fault UAE accepted that his contract says he doesn't have to do domestique duties?
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It's his fault for not being a loyal team mate everyone and then though. And this is the reason he is disliked.
I mean, Pogacar (an actual Tour winner at the time) worked for Mcnulty in Itzulia.
Van Aert unselfishly works for Vingegaard.
Vab Der Poel basically gifter a monument win to Philipsen.
Vingegaard gifted Kuss a Vuelta (okay, that's a bit different, but let's not go there).
And all these riders are, or have been at the time, of a bigger stature than Ayuso is. Yet they worked for their team mate, but Ayuso shouldn't "because his contract says so"?
Give me a break.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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YavorD said:
It's his fault for not being a loyal team mate everyone and then though. And this is the reason he is disliked.
I mean, Pogacar (an actual Tour winner at the time) worked for Mcnulty in Itzulia.
Van Aert unselfishly works for Vingegaard.
Vab Der Poel basically gifter a monument win to Philipsen.
Vingegaard gifted Kuss a Vuelta (okay, that's a bit different, but let's not go there).
And all these riders are, or have been at the time, of a bigger stature than Ayuso is. Yet they worked for their team mate, but Ayuso shouldn't "because his contract says so"?
Give me a break.
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I'm not saying he shouldn't. He definitely should. I'm saying he can do whatever he want because he is promised by the team to go for his own glory. People shouldn't complain as much about this, and stop the over the top hating on him.
 
carolina

carolina

Sep 29, 2013
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Berniece said:
It's his fault UAE accepted that his contract says he doesn't have to do domestique duties?
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He likely has a similar contract to Almeida. In the interview he gave to a portuguese newspaper, before the Tour, he said he would work for Poga, but in the Vuelta it would be different even if Pogacar was there. So my take is that both Almeida and Ayuso have leadership for one GT per season. Ayuso had the Giro this year.

He chose to renew his contract, he knew who was in the team.

Also, only a fool would expect full leadership with zero domestic duties when they have a stronger teammate.
 
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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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Berniece said:
I'm not saying he shouldn't. He definitely should. I'm saying he can do whatever he want because he is promised by the team to go for his own glory. People shouldn't complain as much about this, and stop the over the top hating on him.
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He can do whatever he wants, and in turn everyone can hate him as much as they want. I want to hate him, and I should complain about him even louder.

I call it Napierian relativism.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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Netserk said:
He can do whatever he wants, and in turn everyone can hate him as much as they want.
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Sure, I just find it disproportionate, and it's clear where most of the hate comes from. The same people that were cheering when he had to drop out of the Giro, and hoped he would fail there.
 
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YavorD

YavorD

Jul 8, 2017
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Berniece said:
I'm not saying he shouldn't. He definitely should. I'm saying he can do whatever he want because he is promised by the team to go for his own glory. People shouldn't complain as much about this, and stop the over the top hating on him.
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But I'm not saying he shouldn't go for his own glory. I'm actually pushing a theory that 2 stage wins from Ayuso are better for UAE than him babysitting Almeida to finish second behind Vingegaard, especially that he would finish second anyway.
All I'm saying is, at least sometimes, he should give some help to his leader and not doing it simply not good.
 
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fenns

fenns

May 16, 2015
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It would be difficult to define "leadership" and "domestic duties" within a legal contract. What would "leadership" mean - how would it confer an obligation on teammates unless they sign up to it?
 
Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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Netserk said:
Sounds like he has earned a bad image over a long time.
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I only found him overrated as a cyclist, but never had a problem with how he was riding because UAE does what UAE does. It's only because he didn't help Pogacar last year that that hate really exploded. Sounds like it has more to do with that, than not helping anyone in general.
 
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T

theyoungest

Jan 11, 2010
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Netserk said:
Sounds like he has earned a bad image over a long time.
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The guy is 22 years old. And if it's really stipulated in his contract that he gets to ride for himself in a grand tour every year, like @Berniece says it's as much UAE's fault as his own (or his manager) that he sticks to that agreement.
 
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Berniece

Berniece

Sep 12, 2022
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Samu Cuenca

Samu Cuenca

Sep 26, 2020
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I hope for Ayuso's sake that he will have a similar no-pull clause in his future contract. Otherwise Trek might force him to do lead outs for Pedersen. I mean he can't do any worse than the team they have brought to this race.
 
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