JV talks, sort of

[Benotti69]

One up for Garmin. Hesjedal and Millar clearly riding clean in this Giro.

Or the other teams have gone and done a sky and upped their GT programs.

 

[blackcat]

Do you actually understand the nature of the foundation of the Slipstream set up, it started of as a junior team that JV set up and secured sponsorship for and put in a little of his own money. It was Doug Ellis who approached JV about turning the team into a pro team, not the other way round. JV has said on here that he told Ellis that he was crazy to think such a thing but that Ellis insisted.

Thus Slipstream sports was set up as the management company to run the team with JV as part owner(as he was the guy asked to run the team) and Doug Ellis providing the funds to run the show. Obviously when Slipstream secured actual sponsorship dollars i.e Garmin etc, this lessens the input from Ellis.


Technically if any former pro or even average joe was involved in running a cycling team and they met some rich super millionaire who wanted to back a cycling team and was willing to fund it, they could set up a company to run the team, problem being they need to have some insight to running a team and the knowledge of the world of pro cycling.

Funny thing is you were banging on about JV hunting the glory but fact is most former pro's still involved in cycling jumped straight into a team car as DS or manager etc and that becomes their role. Kinda ironic that because JV took time away from the top level and started up a junior team that he wound up being a part owner of a ProTour team. He took the long approach and got lucky in meeting Doug Ellis.

As usual you are trying to make this out to be far more sinister and nefarious than what it is.

Also what is this whole thing with Jens Voigt, clearly Credit Agricole signed Vaughters based on him winning Route du Sud and finishing 2nd at the Dauphine(with the Mont Ventoux win). Those results obviously gave the impression that JV had more potential to be a contender for those types of races than Jens Voigt so that is why he got the big contract in front of Voigt.

Perhaps if JV had actually finished the Tour in 99, CA might have had a better idea of what type of rider he was but they took a bit of a gamble and it backfired(happens all the time). Voigt ended up being the more successful rider for CA. Looking back now and saying that Voigt was the better rider does not change the fact that back in 99 CA seen more potential in JV as a possible GT rider than they did Voigt. Also ironic in that Voigt started his career at........AIS as a team-mate of one Matthew White!!!

i did axiomatically believe jv always told the truth, til i found out otherwise.

jv is an ambitious man, has lived a privileged life in an intelligent middle class fam, and cycling exposed him to successful individuals in commerce.

could the actual refrain about doug ellis being the white night with a k, knight, could this be false, and jv hit up a man who had an interest in cycling on the continent in the pro ranks like tom wiesel. ? question mark.

jv told us that he rang credit agricol's roger legay and was despondent and told him he would now dope for the tour to get results.

but this was fictional.

and he did willingly dope when he was at CA and no such phone call went on.

and we are told the bee/wasp eye sting swelling could not be put down with cortisone during the tour, a practical response of legay/vaughters stance on doping.

every test of blood that looks potentially suspicious, is explained aways as the device was not correctly calibrated.

either, i have to be a fool to just willingly believe everything jv utters as the gospel truth <hitchens sarcasm> or i am suspicious when things are potentially contradictory.

the thing about a lier who goes on record, is it is much easier to catch them out in future by assessing the conflicting record. and without facts irl to jog the memory, those tails spun, are more easily lost in the memory bank.

for me, the legay phonecall is front and centre, the cortisone injection is front and centre. i know that millar, with ellis, are the owners, and the patronage of ellis and how it "occurred", or is told it occurred. i know the story about riding clean at CA which was not the case.

doping is not a bad thing in the context of cycling. i even concede, one is compelled to lie about it. but i see the lies and mistruths told as the genuinely insidious performance in the scheme of things.

 

[DirtyWorks]

One up for Garmin. Hesjedal and Millar clearly riding clean in this Giro.

Or clean-ish. I thought this post at veloclinic pretty much nailed it.

2004's version of "rail thin" versus 2013 "normal."

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/50324725645/the-rail-thin-phonak-rider-started-the-vueltas

Wait, don't tell me. Advanced training techniques. I know. I know. It's because I don't know anything about training an elite cyclist. We will agree to disagree on the how of historically thin cyclists that are producing enormous power for 3 weeks.

 

[Benotti69]

i did axiomatically believe jv always told the truth, til i found out otherwise.

jv is an ambitious man, has lived a privileged life in an intelligent middle class fam, and cycling exposed him to successful individuals in commerce.

could the actual refrain about doug ellis being the white night with a k, knight, could this be false, and jv hit up a man who had an interest in cycling on the continent in the pro ranks like tom wiesel. ? question mark.

jv told us that he rang credit agricol's roger legay and was despondent and told him he would now dope for the tour to get results.

but this was fictional.

and he did willingly dope when he was at CA and no such phone call went on.

and we are told the bee/wasp eye sting swelling could not be put down with cortisone during the tour, a practical response of legay/vaughters stance on doping.

every test of blood that looks potentially suspicious, is explained aways as the device was not correctly calibrated.

either, i have to be a fool to just willingly believe everything jv utters as the gospel truth <hitchens sarcasm> or i am suspicious when things are potentially contradictory.

the thing about a lier who goes on record, is it is much easier to catch them out in future by assessing the conflicting record. and without facts irl to jog the memory, those tails spun, are more easily lost in the memory bank.

for me, the legay phonecall is front and centre, the cortisone injection is front and centre. i know that millar, with ellis, are the owners, and the patronage of ellis and how it "occurred", or is told it occurred. i know the story about riding clean at CA which was not the case.

doping is not a bad thing in the context of cycling. i even concede, one is compelled to lie about it. but i see the lies and mistruths told as the genuinely insidious performance in the scheme of things.

Welcome to the world of Argyle as painted by JV.

 

[blackcat]

Or clean-ish. I thought this post at veloclinic pretty much nailed it.

2004's version of "rail thin" versus 2013 "normal."

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/50324725645/the-rail-thin-phonak-rider-started-the-vueltas

Wait, don't tell me. Advanced training techniques. I know. I know. It's because I don't know anything about training an elite cyclist. We will agree to disagree on the how of historically thin cyclists that are producing enormous power for 3 weeks.

it is quite simple to refute that tho.

to lose such weight naturally, one needs to be in a significant caloric deficit for a material period on the calendar. and you still need to train at your threshold to bring form to the boil.

= NOT NORMAL

 

[DirtyWorks]

Welcome to the world of Argyle as painted by JV.

I will say in JV's defense that I serously doubt we'll see a sport where things from a DS perspective make some sense until the UCI inexplicably becomes interested in a fairly played game and a less corrupt sports federation.

 

[DirtyWorks]

it is quite simple to refute that tho.

to lose such weight naturally, one needs to be in a significant caloric deficit for a material period on the calendar. and you still need to train at your threshold to bring form to the boil.

= NOT NORMAL

I'll give Ryder the benefit of the doubt. If he managed to waste away like that without dope, he's now learned, the hard way, why it will never work for a grand tour. Most humans cannot be that skinny and keep generating the power required for a grand tour. Except if you are at Sky.

 

[frenchfry]

Or clean-ish. I thought this post at veloclinic pretty much nailed it.

2004's version of "rail thin" versus 2013 "normal."

http://veloclinic.tumblr.com/post/50324725645/the-rail-thin-phonak-rider-started-the-vueltas

Wait, don't tell me. Advanced training techniques. I know. I know. It's because I don't know anything about training an elite cyclist. We will agree to disagree on the how of historically thin cyclists that are producing enormous power for 3 weeks.

I am the same height (1.88m) and weight (~70kg) as Hesjedal, and though on the skinny side do not consider myself rail-thin. I must admit that generating power isn't my strong suit.

At least I have a bike that fits.

 

[Benotti69]

I will say in JV's defense that I serously doubt we'll see a sport where things from a DS perspective make some sense until the UCI inexplicably becomes interested in a fairly played game and a less corrupt sports federation.

As soon as JV gets his MBA I would not be surprised if he is gone from the sport. Will he further spill the beans, I hope so, but somehow i doubt it. He has played it all very carefully, even to coming in here to drop hints and pretend to be interested in fans.

 

[Benotti69]

it is quite simple to refute that tho.

to lose such weight naturally, one needs to be in a significant caloric deficit for a material period on the calendar. and you still need to train at your threshold to bring form to the boil.

= NOT NORMAL

Yep. Not normal.

 

[BroDeal]

So much for the sport improving. After that stage the only thing clean is Garmin's clocks.

 

[the sceptic]

What is the excuse? havent heard anything about a stomach virus or a cold.

 

[thehog]

What is the excuse? havent heard anything about a stomach virus or a cold.

dead cells in BB1. Might have to go to BB2 early.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Garmin dont need marginal gains, they need huge gains.

Quite the contrast to last week.

Looks like Zulle in 2000[??]

 

[maltiv]

Hesjedal lost a lot of weight and clearly lost a lot of watts and even his ability to recover in the process.

Not normal.

Oh wait, that's completely ****ing normal and is exactly what you'd expect with a clean rider. Jesus christ.

 

[Benotti69]

All BB1s were dead. Hesjedal was garmin's 1st finisher today, 20'53" down.

Rest of the peloton has taken a step up again. Leinder's probably selling his Sky knowledge to multiple teams.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Hesjedal lost a lot of weight and clearly lost a lot of watts and even his ability to recover in the process.

Not normal.

Oh wait, that's completely ****ing normal and is exactly what you'd expect with a clean rider. Jesus christ.

He should be okay for the Tour then.

 

[thehog]

All BB1s were dead. Hesjedal was garmin's 1st finisher today, 20'53" down.

Rest of the peloton has taken a step up again. Leinder's probably selling his Sky knowledge to multiple teams.

After last year what choice did the peloton have?

JV will be eating his words now about thinking Sky are clean.

Garmin will be out the back on the Tour as well.

 

[Havetts]

Hesjedal lost a lot of weight and clearly lost a lot of watts and even his ability to recover in the process.

Not normal.

Oh wait, that's completely ****ing normal and is exactly what you'd expect with a clean rider. Jesus christ.

Exactly. It is normal, for anyone bar Sky.

 

[The Hitch]

Exactly. It is normal, for anyone bar Sky.

This

10 characters

 

[Big Doopie]

hesjedal lost a lot of weight and clearly lost a lot of watts and even his ability to recover in the process.

Not normal.

Oh wait, that's completely ****ing normal and is exactly what you'd expect with a clean rider. Jesus christ.

+100000000000.

 

[Big Doopie]

I find it freakin depressing that Nibali is leading the giro and way over performing. This is a guy connected to dr Ferrari and who chose to go to systematic blood doping team Astana. This guy is a serial doper. As is diluca. The future of cycling is at a crossroads. What happens next may determine what we see in the near future.

 

[BroDeal]

I find it freakin depressing that Nibali is leading the giro and way over performing. This is a guy connected to dr Ferrari and who chose to go to systematic blood doping team Astana. This guy is a serial doper. As is diluca. The future of cycling is at a crossroads. What happens next may determine what we see in the near future.

Why did the Wiggins cross the roads? To get to the TdF on the other side.

 

[Big Doopie]

Why did the Wiggins cross the roads? To get to the TdF on the other side.

Not talking about wiggins. Not a fan. Why does Nibali get a free ride. Every choice he has made in his career from an early stage was that of a serial doper. He's an utter fraud and if he wins the giro cycling is back to Armstrong days.

 

[Granville57]

He's an utter fraud and if he wins the giro cycling is back to Armstrong days.

Not sure you have to go back quite that far.