JV talks, sort of

[Granville57]

Maybe JV and the team handpicked the stage...

https://twitter.com/Vaughters/status/353889355733012480
@vaughters

I put a lot of pressure on today. It was the day I pointed to from a week ago as the day we could define our #tdf. Amazing how they responded

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That is what it looked like. Fuglsang looked smooth once the serious incline on the descent was past them. So roughly from the 18km mark on. Martin was bobbing up and down. Though he did ride that last 1km very wisely. Made Fuglsang lead out. I was hopping he'd hit the brakes.

Maybe JV and the team handpicked the stage and thus had proper recon on the final 500m with that tricky switchback into a sharp left hand turn? Either way, it was nice. As for the chasing bunch...I don't think they had much left. They're all lucky Valverde wasn't there for the win.

In a straight up sprint, I would pick Fuglsang, but only just.

Of course this was not a straight up sprint - Martin knew about the corner, so it was all about staying behind and being first in to the corner. Bike racing at its best.

 

[Granville57]

In a straight up sprint, I would pick Fuglsang, but only just.

Not sure Fuglslang would agree. In the post-race interview he seemed to acknowledge that he knew Dan would be stronger and faster in the end.

If you watch the overhead replay, it was more than just that final turn. Martin had better legs and more kick.

Great finish to an exciting stage.

 

[Granville57]

Ashenden spoke of the dark era not being over and JV wouldn't discuss it in here.

Just to get back to this point...

This is what he said:

Why on earth would Ashenden have any idea? He's presented with a few anomalous passport cases a year and is asked to render opinion on them. What does this have to do with a dark era continuing or not?

Sorry, but while I respect Michael and our doctors have a good working relationship with him, I don't think he's qualified to make an overarching judgement on professional cycling's current state.

The problem with that being, as I pointed out previously, is that Ashenden wasn't just making things up. He was responding directly to a phone call he received from someone that was tipping him off. The details of which have yet to be revealed.

 

[Granville57]

To be fair to JV though, this needs to be reposted as well:

When I say "i don't know" it means "I don't know"... It does not mean I don't have a private opinion.


In the end, what maybe you guys don't get, I don't care as much as you might think about if rider xyz doped or not. I don't claim the sport is totally clean, what i claim is that clean riders are winning more than at any other point in cycling's history. That's all.

 

[Galic Ho]

In a straight up sprint, I would pick Fuglsang, but only just.

Of course this was not a straight up sprint - Martin knew about the corner, so it was all about staying behind and being first in to the corner. Bike racing at its best.

Exactly. Better tactics won the stage.

@granville57. There you go. Garmin do lately tend to have plans that pay off nicely. The final kick did look like Martin had the legs more so than Fuglsang. Much bigger kick. Got him first dig. Didn't even have to take another dig.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Just to get back to this point...

This is what he said:


The problem with that being, as I pointed out previously, is that Ashenden wasn't just making things up. He was responding directly to a phone call he received from someone that was tipping him off. The details of which have yet to be revealed.

Ok, but you have snipped part of JVs post out and it misses the context, which of course a strawman in the middle. Here is the full set:

Well it would help if people came about with a more receptive attitude towards the fact that just possibly not the whole peloton is riddled with doping, then possibly JV would be able to show you how to put the jigsaw together. If you dont let him and others demonstrate how to put it together, then it will never be complete or even close to complete.

Effectively there is no chance of any doubts being quashed if people on here refuse to be even a minutely bit receptive.

Maybe you missed Ashenden writing the dark era is not gone it has a new guise.

Why on earth would Ashenden have any idea? He's presented with a few anomalous passport cases a year and is asked to render opinion on them. What does this have to do with a dark era continuing or not?

Sorry, but while I respect Michael and our doctors have a good working relationship with him, I don't think he's qualified to make an overarching judgement on professional cycling's current state.

I also think you are focusing on comments of his and creating your own context. Michael is ****ed at the UCI, as many of us are. That's where his venom is aimed. I seriously doubt he would have much negative to say about Garmin if directly asked.

I am arguing with a Stop sign, I know. Need to stop.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Kudos to Garmin, and whoever is acting DS this year. The tactics employed today were guaranteed to cause trouble to the yellow jersey - doped or not. Fantastic racing! The problem, however, is that a clean Garmin will be sore and tired tomorrow. Whereas a Sky high team will be fresh as a daisy. In the end, Garmin will have ripped themselves to pieces and heaven help them if Sky go full gas all next week. I hope the rest day does them some good.

John Swanson

 

[Granville57]

Kudos to Garmin, and whoever is acting DS this year.

Charly Wigelius

 

[Benotti69]

Kudos to Garmin, and whoever is acting DS this year. The tactics employed today were guaranteed to cause trouble to the yellow jersey - doped or not. Fantastic racing! The problem, however, is that a clean Garmin will be sore and tired tomorrow. Whereas a Sky high team will be fresh as a daisy. In the end, Garmin will have ripped themselves to pieces and heaven help them if Sky go full gas all next week. I hope the rest day does them some good.

John Swanson

Tomorrow is a rest day and 'recovery' programs kick in.

 

[BroDeal]

Kudos to Garmin, and whoever is acting DS this year. The tactics employed today were guaranteed to cause trouble to the yellow jersey - doped or not. Fantastic racing! The problem, however, is that a clean Garmin will be sore and tired tomorrow. Whereas a Sky high team will be fresh as a daisy. In the end, Garmin will have ripped themselves to pieces and heaven help them if Sky go full gas all next week. I hope the rest day does them some good.

Garmin have zero chance of doing anything for GC. They saw that yesterday. Today was all about salvaging their Tour with a stage win.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Garmin have zero chance of doing anything for GC. They saw that yesterday. Today was all about salvaging their Tour with a stage win.

Absolutely.
Galic & I were discussing this upthread before the Tour kicked in. They had almost zero chance of competing for overall victory, but a great Tour wouuld have been Ryder or Dan doing a top 10 and a stage win. They have done a big part of it, now its sit back,take it day by day with Dan and see how he lasts. There are still 2 long hard weeks ahead, but their Tour is already a good one.

 

[gooner]

Pretty obvious now what he meant.

doc ‏@veloclinic 42m
@Vaughters hey congrats your lone tweet yesterday sounded a bit defeated. and a fired up JV is way more fun.

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 16m
@veloclinic you probably very much underestimate how personally invested I am in anti-doping. Professionally, I'm sure you get.

Jonathan Vaughters ‏@Vaughters 15m
@veloclinic easy for me to get down when my optimism gets a bit beaten up.

 

[Taxus4a]

JV, you are rating Porte and Rogers too highly

Do you think so that after see Contador as a domestique of Rogers in Dauphiné?

 

[Galic Ho]

Absolutely.
Galic & I were discussing this upthread before the Tour kicked in. They had almost zero chance of competing for overall victory, but a great Tour wouuld have been Ryder or Dan doing a top 10 and a stage win. They have done a big part of it, now its sit back,take it day by day with Dan and see how he lasts. There are still 2 long hard weeks ahead, but their Tour is already a good one.

I was thinking just now how wise it would be for teams like BMC to copy Garmin's play book. They really need to send Tejay or Gilbert out for a stage win. Get them to save energy for a day or two and then go for it. Same with Moinard.

If Cadel doesn't like it...too bad. The team deserves to leave the Tour with something. I have no doubt Evans can pull himself back into the top 10, but a stage win IMO is more important. Especially if he falters.

Given Garmin started the stage 2 riders down, yesterday was a very good day for them. I was actually thinking when I heard Rohan Dennis did not start the stage that they might as well have tied his bike to Froome's and gotten him to pull him through the stage. I have no doubt Froome could have done it and lost no time.

Don't people find it odd, that Garmin have sent two young and very gifted Aussies to GT's the past few years, Bobridge and Dennis, who are regarded as the best track pursuiters Australia has and yet, next to their British counterparts, their performances are staggering in GTs? I know which team looks normal.

 

[thehog]

Pretty obvious now what he meant.

Dave M is keeping his sister in a job.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/millar-sky-dont-deserve-to-have-mud-thrown-at-them-at-the-tour

 

[the sceptic]

Pretty obvious now what he meant.

JV looked at the powermeters of Talansky and Martin after Ax3 and saw they were doing 5.7w/kg then obviously its not hard to guess that Froome must have done a hell of a lot more than that.

What is the reason that none of the Garmin riders makes their power outputs public? Wouldnt that be a good thing for transparency and to show that speeds are down at least for some.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

JV looked at the powermeters of Talansky and Martin after Ax3 and saw they were doing 5.7w/kg then obviously its not hard to guess that Froome must have done a hell of a lot more than that.

What is the reason that none of the Garmin riders makes their power outputs public? Wouldnt that be a good thing for transparency and to show that speeds are down at least for some.

Bingo, Jackpot.

You dont need a phd in physics - it is handy of course - to make a decent calculation for a rider like Dan Martin to go two and a half minutes faster on the Bonascre climb when you know his SRM wattages.

It is called omerta. Cycling cant handle a new scandal according to their logic.

 

[northstar]

What is the reason that none of the Garmin riders makes their power outputs public? Wouldnt that be a good thing for transparency and to show that speeds are down at least for some.

Garmin does release some rider data. Latest was Dan Martin’s from Stage 9. I can't get over the calories burned: 6,950.

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2013/07/08/data-dan-martin-tour-de-france-stage-9

 

[Mr.38%]

Garmin does release some rider data. Latest was Dan Martin’s from Stage 9. I can't get over the calories burned: 6,950.

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2013/07/08/data-dan-martin-tour-de-france-stage-9

There you have it, all data has to be checked and interpreted. 6,950 kcal translate to roughly the same amount in kj which translate to ca. 1430 kj/h. That would mean, Martin did almost 5 hours at ca. 400W. An amount of 4,800-5,000 kcal would be more believable for 5h at maybe 260-280W. Absolutely amazing nevertheless.

Is there any power meter data from any rider of that stage? Check out old TDF data, e.g. from CA Sörensen in 2011.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

There you have it, all data has to be checked and interpreted. 6,950 kcal translate to roughly the same amount in kj which translate to ca. 1430 kj/h. That would mean, Martin did almost 5 hours at ca. 400W. An amount of 4,800-5,000 kcal would be more believable for 5h at maybe 260-280W. Absolutely amazing nevertheless.

Is there any power meter data from any rider of that stage? Check out old TDF data, e.g. from CA Sörensen in 2011.

Maxime Montfort averaged 316 watts for that stage, he is listed at 67 kilo, that would make 4.8w/k for the stage average...

So 400 for Martin is way of.

Nice to see some data of Dan but it is clearly incomplete.

 

[meat puppet]

It's clearly not from a power file, probably not even from a heart rate based estimate either. Garmin devices can plot a guesstimate energy consumption from speed and altitude gain alone, so that's probably what we are seeing.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

There you have it, all data has to be checked and interpreted. 6,950 kcal translate to roughly the same amount in kj which translate to ca. 1430 kj/h. That would mean, Martin did almost 5 hours at ca. 400W. An amount of 4,800-5,000 kcal would be more believable for 5h at maybe 260-280W. Absolutely amazing nevertheless.

Is there any power meter data from any rider of that stage? Check out old TDF data, e.g. from CA Sörensen in 2011.

SRM data.
Movistar Team's GC, Alejandro Valverde, averaged 262 watts through the Pyrenees with an average cadence of 72rpm. He climbed just under 3,800 meters with an average speed of 35.3kph, requiring 4,300 kilocalories.

 

[Ferminal]

Well, Valverde's just ruined his chances of ever winning another race. To be fair though, I think that's why they released Stage 9 data and not Stage 8.

 

[Pulpstar]

Sorry to be nieve here but why would releasing the power data ruin his chances of winning another race ?

Skybots can now analyse it or it show he is doping (I have no idea if it does or not) ? Sorry bit confused here..