JV talks, sort of

[Dear Wiggo]

Do you know the questions he was asked, the framing of the questions etc.? Not talking about it might not have been an option. Also I think these cyclists are so used to lying about it, that a cross my heart and hope to die reply, or on my mothers grave etc is the easiest thing for them to say with a strait face.

Thats why I don't take what they say that seriously. There are so many factors involved in the process from their mouths to my ears and eyes that it's mostly pointless. Doper or not, they all say the same thing anyway once their words are processed through the differing filters.

Unless they say something unexpected of course, that gets my attention.

And do you take what they said in an affidavit seriously? They all stopped BOOM in 2006, 2 years before the BP was introduced, in the middle of the gravy train ride?

 

[ToreBear]

And do you take what they said in an affidavit seriously? They all stopped BOOM in 2006, 2 years before the BP was introduced, in the middle of the gravy train ride?

Yes I take it seriously. They might be lying of course, but It doesn't seem sensible for them to risk perjury charges just so they could pretend to be a little bit less dirty.

But some of them are harder to believe than others. Leipheimer for example, I remember having trouble believing.

And the passport started being introduced in 2009 IIRC.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

yes i take it seriously. They might be lying of course, but it doesn't seem sensible for them to risk perjury charges just so they could pretend to be a little bit less dirty.

But some of them are harder to believe than others. Leipheimer for example, i remember having trouble believing.

And the passport started being introduced in 2009 iirc.

2008 .

 

[ToreBear]

2008 .

Do you know when they started collecting samples? Early in 2008 or late?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Do you know when they started collecting samples? Early in 2008 or late?

Garmin were trialling the precursor (ACE) in 2006/7, I believe. I am not sure when they started in 2008, but I believe it was from the start of the year, as Ashenden was comparing Garmin's internal values (which spanned Nov 2007 - July 2008 in the article ) and saying the BP values were so different they looked like they were from a different rider. The point being he was comparing them, so hopefully the dates (Nov 2007-Jul 2008) matched up otherwise his comparison was bogus, but he's a clever guy so I am guessing he didn't make that mistake.

 

[ToreBear]

Garmin were trialling the precursor (ACE) in 2006/7, I believe. I am not sure when they started in 2008, but I believe it was from the start of the year, as Ashenden was comparing Garmin's internal values (which spanned Nov 2007 - July 2008 in the article ) and saying the BP values were so different they looked like they were from a different rider. The point being he was comparing them, so hopefully the dates (Nov 2007-Jul 2008) matched up otherwise his comparison was bogus, but he's a clever guy so I am guessing he didn't make that mistake.

Ok thanks!

The Clinic should have a thread with the history of ad efforts in cycling. It would make it easier to remember important events. Like a quick reference post or something.

 

[Aleajactaest]

Ok thanks!

The Clinic should have a thread with the history of ad efforts in cycling. It would make it easier to remember important events. Like a quick reference post or something.

What would it say? "from 1900-2006 Doping was prevalent in cycling and then mysteriously stopped." The facts to anecdotal evidence ratio is very low.

 

[the sceptic]

What would it say? "from 1900-2006 Doping was prevalent in cycling and then mysteriously stopped." The facts to anecdotal evidence ratio is very low.

Thought it didnt stop until the truce in 2009. (explains why Wiggins was climbing with Cavendish in 2008 and with LA, Contador and the Schlecks in 2009)

Then everyone started doping again in 2010 and 2011. (except for the 2011 vuelta which was clean)

Then stopped again in 2012. (Hesjedal and Sky with clean wins)

Now it seems everyone has started doping again in 2013, but they might stop again before the tour. (depending on who wins)

 

[heart_attack_man]

Thought it didnt stop until the truce in 2009. (explains why Wiggins was climbing with Cavendish in 2008 and with LA, Contador and the Schlecks in 2009)

Then everyone started doping again in 2010 and 2011. (except for the 2011 vuelta which was clean)

Then stopped again in 2012. (Hesjedal and Sky with clean wins)

Now it seems everyone has started doping again in 2013, but they might stop again before the tour. (depending on who wins)

This whole post (including the Quote from Aleajactaest) is one of the best things I have read in the clinic. Chapeau.

 

[Mishrak]

Ok thanks!

The Clinic should have a thread with the history of ad efforts in cycling. It would make it easier to remember important events. Like a quick reference post or something.

It would be a thread a mile long unfortunately.

 

[ToreBear]

1997/month: Limit of hct introduced
2001?/month: epo test introduce
200x ooc testing introduced
200x whereabouts introduced
200x bio passport introduced
20xx first bio passport case brough before cas

Etc.
Just a chronology of important things without much text involved for easy reference, so that one might easier relate to what the situation was at a certain time.

It could make it easier to correct misunderstandings, by just referring to the quick list.

People wouldn't need to dig around to find out why Armstrong wasn't caught by the bio passport back in 1999 for example.

Small easy facts.

 

[Jack (6 ch)]

1997/month: Limit of hct introduced
2001?/month: epo test introduce
200x ooc testing introduced
200x whereabouts introduced
200x bio passport introduced
20xx first bio passport case brough before cas

Etc.
Just a chronology of important things without much text involved for easy reference, so that one might easier relate to what the situation was at a certain time.

It could make it easier to correct misunderstandings, by just referring to the quick list.

People wouldn't need to dig around to find out why Armstrong wasn't caught by the bio passport back in 1999 for example.

Small easy facts.

You didn't need a bio passport to catch Lance in 1999.

You did need a sports administration with integrity though.

 

[Granville57]

The Clinic should have a thread with the history of ad efforts in cycling. It would make it easier to remember important events. Like a quick reference post or something.

I'm not sure what you mean by "ad efforts" but please tell me that you're familiar with Dopeology.
http://www.dopeology.org


And that goes for everyone here.

 

[ToreBear]

I'm not sure what you mean by "ad efforts" but please tell me that you're familiar with Dopeology.
http://www.dopeology.org


And that goes for everyone here.

When was the whereabouts system introduced in cycling?

 

[Granville57]

When was the whereabouts system introduced in cycling?

Oh, that's easy. 2010.

As covered in that other thread, the "whereabouts system" was introduced by Team Sky so as to ascertain the "whereabouts" of their riders after a race.

there's even a red LED beacon which extends skywards to ensure the riders can find their way back to base after a hard day in the saddle.

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_5886373,00.html

 

[Granville57]

When was the whereabouts system introduced in cycling?

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/ADAMS/

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTUyODY&LangId=1

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-unveils-new-version-of-whereabouts-system

 

[SeriousSam]

Thought it didnt stop until the truce in 2009. (explains why Wiggins was climbing with Cavendish in 2008 and with LA, Contador and the Schlecks in 2009)

Then everyone started doping again in 2010 and 2011. (except for the 2011 vuelta which was clean)

Then stopped again in 2012. (Hesjedal and Sky with clean wins)

Now it seems everyone has started doping again in 2013, but they might stop again before the tour. (depending on who wins)

lol hilarious

it's probably what the median sky fan actually believes

 

[thehog]

1997/month: Limit of hct introduced
2001?/month: epo test introduce
200x ooc testing introduced
200x whereabouts introduced
200x bio passport introduced
20xx first bio passport case brough before cas

2012 The introduction of marginal gains.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Thought it didnt stop until the truce in 2009. (explains why Wiggins was climbing with Cavendish in 2008 and with LA, Contador and the Schlecks in 2009)

Then everyone started doping again in 2010 and 2011. (except for the 2011 vuelta which was clean)

Then stopped again in 2012. (Hesjedal and Sky with clean wins)

Now it seems everyone has started doping again in 2013, but they might stop again before the tour. (depending on who wins)

 

[ToreBear]

http://www.wada-ama.org/en/ADAMS/

http://www.uci.ch/templates/UCI/UCI2/layout.asp?MenuId=MTUyODY&LangId=1

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/wada-unveils-new-version-of-whereabouts-system

Yep, thats the point, no real clear answer, just general. Wada launched the pilot in 2005. Did UCI implement it at once? Doubtful.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yep, thats the point, no real clear answer, just general. Wada launched the pilot in 2005. Did UCI implement it at once? Doubtful.

From memory, UCI were the last people to sign up to the anti-doping agreement (Copenhagen something or other) that had buy-in from governments as designed by WADA, and were just in time to prevent exclusion from the Olympics (2000, I think?).

 

[ToreBear]

From memory, UCI were the last people to sign up to the anti-doping agreement (Copenhagen something or other) that had buy-in from governments as designed by WADA, and were just in time to prevent exclusion from the Olympics (2000, I think?).

I think it was in relation to the 2004 olympics. Hein and Pat were dragged kicking and screaming into the wada code.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I think it was in relation to the 2004 olympics. Hein and Pat were dragged kicking and screaming into the wada code.

Yes you are right - the EPO test was ready for the 2000 olympics, in Sydney. WADA was brand new at the time.

 

[Climeon]

Hi Jv, just in the off chance you read this, here are some questions I was hoping you'd answer:
How much of what your riders do in a race e.g. where they (counter)attack is dictated by the riders and how much is dictated by the DS?
Also you previously said you thought 85% of the peleton was clean. I was wondering where you think the remaining 15% are riding. Is it mainly on a few teams or is it the case that although some teams have a slightly higher percentage of dopers than others, most teams have two or three dopers on their teams
Finally I was wondering what your opinion on Sastre is
Many thanks if you do answer these questions

 

[the sceptic]

Good to know JV always knew Santa was doping.

Of course when Wiggins had the same transformation in 2009 it was normal and not "high risk"