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Lemond/Trek new thread

Page 27 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.

Polish

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red_flanders said:
What about the other part--greatest comeback. Equal hyperbole? Is hyperbole OK in one case and not another?

The "greatest comeback" was also hyperbole, but that is not what
sunk the brand...

I DO know the Greatest Sports Comeback of All Time - The '69 Mets
Eternal CUBS Fan me....

"The Miracle Mets won 39 of their last 50 games to blow past the Cubs and finish with 100 wins against 62 losses, 8 games over the 2nd place Cubs. That 17 1/2 game differential is one of the largest turnarounds in the history of the game:(
 
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Anonymous

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How about we get the real facts, from the actual interview that the quote appeared an episode of Outside the Lines on EPSN

The original interview was with the Sunday Times, as I understand it. I cannot find that Sunday Times interview so I can only go on the quote from the latest article. It maybe the quote in that latest article is the full version and others were convoluted. I don't know. Whichever way, I do not think it is accurate or reasonable thing to say.

Armstrong's comeback was the greatest comeback in the history of cycling. His doping is the greatest fraud in the sport. Even the most *** Troll can agree to this.

If that is so obvious then Dr Maserati or somebody else would have given that explanation. I've never seen anyone but LeMond say that before, probably because it does not seem true to most people even if he doped. Like so much of the case against Armstrong, it is over blown.

No need to resort to trolling comments about "retards and trolls" simply because someone disagrees with you. That's no way to debate an issue.
 
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Great White said:
The original interview was with the Sunday Times, as I understand it. I cannot find that Sunday Times interview so I can only go on the quote from the latest article. It maybe the quote in that latest article is the full version and others were convoluted. I don't know. Whichever way, I do not think it is accurate or reasonable thing to say.
Wrong again.

In 2001 Lemond was interviewed and he said
When Lance won the prologue to the 1999 Tour I was close to tears, but when I heard he was working with Michele Ferrari I was devastated. In the light of Lance's relationship with Ferrari, I just don't want to comment on this year's Tour. This is not sour grapes. I'm disappointed in Lance, that's all it is

This led to 3 years of threats, intimidation, and a PR campaign dedicated to smearing his name. By 2004 it was clear that there was a concerted effort by Trek to screw Greg so in an interview with ESPN he said

If [Armstrong's] clean, it's the greatest comeback. And if he's not, then it's the greatest fraud,"
He also went into detail of some of Armstrong's actions against him.

The persecution act does not work, your act has worn thin over the last 6 months do not expect any sympathy.
 
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Anonymous

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Race Radio said:
Wrong again.

I only have your word for that. Given that you have asserted information as fact that you cannot prove on the other current thread, I will reserve judgment. I don't see why the Daily News would make up a quote. The quote is still wrong anyway. We know Armstrong has the mental strength to win seven tours. He is obviously not a fraud.

This led to 3 years of threats, intimidation, and a PR campaign dedicated to smearing his name. By 2004 it was clear that there was a concerted effort by Trek to screw Greg so in an interview with ESPN he said

He also went into detail of some of Armstrong's actions against him.

The persecution act does not work, your act has worn thin over the last 6 months do not expect any sympathy.

What have I said that is a "persecution act" that expects sympathy? It's your argument that Greg LeMond is terribly persecuted and deserves sympathy, not mine. If you don't like people pointing out that you resort to trolling language that has nothing to do with the topic, don't use it.
 
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Great White said:
We know Armstrong has the mental strength to win seven tours.

Yeah but he no longer has the legs for an 8th, such a shame how will he cope when he gest his a$$ handed to him by several riders next July?
 
Race Radio said:
How about we get the real facts, from the actual interview that the quote appeared an episode of Outside the Lines on EPSN

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1841300

"If [Armstrong's] clean, it's the greatest comeback. And if he's not, then it's the greatest fraud," LeMond said.


Armstrong's comeback was the greatest comeback in the history of cycling. His doping is the greatest fraud in the sport. Even the most *** Troll can agree to this.

Who is Spocket1? You must have forgot as he was what, 5-6 bans ago for you?

Can't believe a page was spent arguing over this. Fairly straight forward comprehension there...
 
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Ferminal said:
Can't believe a page was spent arguing over this. Fairly straight forward comprehension there...

If you read the thread you will see the Daily News has a different part to the quote.
 
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BYOP88 said:
If HRH Lance Phamstrong had nothing to hide or worry about, then he wouldn't give a flying funk about what Greg Lemond had to say or what "info" he had, but you don't get "crap" unless there's something there. Also if Lemond had nothing then I think that Phamstrong would be taking Lemond to court for defamation.

PS. How much cash you getting per post?

None

Lemond is on drugs right?
 

Dr. Maserati

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Great White said:
But first you tried to claim it was a reference to finanical matters, then you changed the quote, then you only agreed to the "fraud" part of the quote, so I couldn't be sure.

Well I disagree. I think the statement was over the top. Plenty of dopers have succeeded in cycling. It's more a question of which successful cyclists have not doped.

That is the quote - I did not change it.

As for his fraud - it is both sporting and financial. Without his athletic achievements all the sponsors & teams I mentioned earlier do not fatten up his bank account.

No-one in Pro Cycling has made as much money.
In 2001 it was estimated he made
$15 million,
$29.5 million in one year to 2006,
$28 million in one year to 2005,
$19 million in one year to 2003.

It is reasonable to see that Lance has made avast sum of money from his time with Dr. Ferrari.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Great White said:
We know Armstrong has the mental strength to win seven tours. He is obviously not a fraud.

He wouldn't have had have the physical strength to win a Tour - which is why he associated himself with Dr. Ferrari - who is a doping doctor.

Obviously fraud.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
That is the quote - I did not change it.

There are two versons of it so perhaps this lead to confusion.

As for his fraud - it is both sporting and financial. Without his athletic achievements all the sponsors & teams I mentioned earlier do not fatten up his bank account.

That maybe your view, but I don't think there is a suggestion that this is what LeMond was saying.

It is reasonable to see that Lance has made avast sum of money from his time with Dr. Ferrari.

You're saying that his success is all down to Dr Ferrari? That's quite an assertion. I'm sure Ferrari helped in many areas but in the end a rider is responsible for themselves.
 
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Dr. Maserati said:
He wouldn't have had have the physical strength to win a Tour - which is why he associated himself with Dr. Ferrari - who is a doping doctor.

Obviously fraud.

I don't agree with that at all. In LeMond's defense perhaps it seemed that like that at the time, but winning 7 puts and one third placing after a long time out, puts that notion to bed.

Are you sure Dr Ferrari is just a doping doctor? I've seen riders claiming he is also very good psychological and endurance coach, and is very good with number crunching to see how long a person can stay at the limit, which is why DS's sometimes called him during stages.
 

Dr. Maserati

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Great White said:
I don't agree with that at all. In LeMond's defense perhaps it seemed that like that at the time, but winning 7 puts and one third placing after a long time out, puts that notion to bed.

Are you sure Dr Ferrari is just a doping doctor? I've seen riders claiming he is also very good psychological and endurance coach, and is very good with number crunching to see how long a person can stay at the limit, which is why DS's sometimes called him during stages.
I didn't say he was just a doping Doctor BPC - but it is his best feature.

Name some of the riders...................(I hope they aren't clients of the Doctor)
 
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Great White said:
There are two versons of it so perhaps this lead to confusion.
.

There is only one version, the correct one.

Funny, Trek mentions the quote in their lawsuit.....and they quote it the same as what I, and other rational people, have posted.

Did you run out of your meds?
 
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red_flanders said:
Maybe you could give us a run-down on # of Tour victories before and after Ferrari and we could then determine the answer to your question.

He worked with Ferrari pre cancer and did not win the tour.

I think it's simplistic to put it all down to Ferrari. That's the type of thing that is accepted wisdom on the internet, but in the real world the truth is usually more complex. Armstrong wasn't attempting to win the tour before cancer and was training for different goals, much like Bradly Wiggins in his career before this year. You can't put everything in neat little boxes.
 
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Great White said:
Are you sure Dr Ferrari is just a doping doctor? I've seen riders claiming he is also very good psychological and endurance coach, and is very good with number crunching to see how long a person can stay at the limit, which is why DS's sometimes called him during stages.


128660498159844805.jpg


You are going to get banned again if you keep up with this garbage.
 
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Anonymous

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Dr. Maserati said:
I didn't say he was just a doping Doctor BPC - but it is his best feature.

Name some of the riders...................(I hope they aren't clients of the Doctor)

Obviously they've worked with him or they wouldn't know him, would they. Most of them become good friends with him, even after their career is over.
 
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Anonymous

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Race Radio said:
You are going to get banned again if you keep up with this garbage.

What garbage? It seems to me you have a persecution complex and continually call for people you disagree with to be banned because you believe everyone is out to get you.

I can't hurt you - you shouldn't be scared of me. We're just having a conversation here. No need to post pictures and talk about bannings.
 
Great White said:
He worked with Ferrari pre cancer and did not win the tour.

I think it's simplistic to put it all down to Ferrari. That's the type of thing that is accepted wisdom on the internet, but in the real world the truth is usually more complex. Armstrong wasn't attempting to win the tour before cancer and was training for different goals, much like Bradly Wiggins in his career before this year. You can't put everything in neat little boxes.

So to be clear, with Ferrari 7 wins. Without, 1 finish in like 35th place and a couple of DNF's.

Of course it's too simplistic. Armstrong wasn't going to win the Tour and was training for other goals...why exactly? Because he and everyone around him knew he wasn't going to win the Tour.

He started winning stage races shortly after teaming up with the good doctor. Was it all Ferrari? No. But it was and is an ESSENTIAL ingredient. Never would have happened without him.

And frankly, who exactly is saying any different?