Lemond's body of evidence

[Parbar]

The 70,000 pages are from the lawsuit against Trek, where they didn't promote his bike line as planned because he accused Lance of doping. He won. It's not as simple as that, ...

Lots of time and effort focused on "He won" when theswordsman immediatedly followed that with the acknowledgement that "It's not as simple as that." Did this thread get hi-jacked or what?

 

[Cal_Joe]

<snip> Did this thread get hi-jacked or what?

Welcome to the CN forum.

 

[buckwheat]

...well we have admittedly seen a great deal of tar stick to one side of that dime...but please the other side is not really so shiny and clean...

...in point of fact Mr LeMond is a cheat ( granted it is in the biblical sense but we are talking cheaters are we not )( see...Greg LeMond vs. The World...Men's Journal ...which incidently if you read will show our boy is pretty "damaged goods"...he has had a very sad life it seems...really too bad because he was an amazing talent... )

...and there has been a fair bit of "bending of truth" in Mr LeMond's career...the accusations levelled at Moreno Argentin immediately after the 85 World Championships are a good example ( though to be fair he did later recant the accusations but this after maintaining them for the better part of a year )...and of course there is the changing story surrounding his leaving the sport...I believe it went from busted mitochondria to the "I couldn't compete because everyone but me was using drugs" schtick ( which is, come to think of it, kinda a variation of the "they are all against me" theme that keeps cropping up thru-out his career)...

...and we really won't go into detail into his wretched performances as a team-mate but his work at Goodwood in 82 is worth a look to get a flavour of the man...

Cheers

blutto

Do you like child molesters?

 

[Hugh Januss]

Do you like child molesters?

No, he loves child molesters.

 

[Oldman]

...well we have admittedly seen a great deal of tar stick to one side of that dime...but please the other side is not really so shiny and clean...

...in point of fact Mr LeMond is a cheat ( granted it is in the biblical sense but we are talking cheaters are we not )( see...Greg LeMond vs. The World...Men's Journal ...which incidently if you read will show our boy is pretty "damaged goods"...he has had a very sad life it seems...really too bad because he was an amazing talent... )

...and there has been a fair bit of "bending of truth" in Mr LeMond's career...the accusations levelled at Moreno Argentin immediately after the 85 World Championships are a good example ( though to be fair he did later recant the accusations but this after maintaining them for the better part of a year )...and of course there is the changing story surrounding his leaving the sport...I believe it went from busted mitochondria to the "I couldn't compete because everyone but me was using drugs" schtick ( which is, come to think of it, kinda a variation of the "they are all against me" theme that keeps cropping up thru-out his career)...

...and we really won't go into detail into his wretched performances as a team-mate but his work at Goodwood in 82 is worth a look to get a flavour of the man...

Cheers

blutto

I read enough of the thread to get the Lack of content. One thing I do get is you equate an athelete that pursued an unknown sport to purge some demons and make a name for himself (however tarnished by your account), ended up pioneering that obscure sport to a Sports Illustrated cover as Man of the Year to a start to finish fraud that is now being exposed. For what it's worth the Lance that we have wouldn't exist without Lemond breaking ground for his ascendancy. Granted Lemond's motives and state of mind can be debated, but to equate the two on a moral level is convenient only to pointless debate.
That Lemond has 70,000 pages of anything is strange. Defending Lance Armstrong at Lemond's continued expense is weirder still. I guess this sh*t will go on for awhile.

 

[callac]

.
...he has had a very sad life it seems...really too bad because he was an amazing talent...

I guess you didn't pay attention to the sound of that sentence. Quite nauseating... The horrific things in his life wouldn't be "too bad" had he had no talent?

 

[blutto]

Do you like child molesters?

My Dearest Mr.Wheat,

...the basic question that is asked in the study of history is called the 4W's...Who says What about Whom and Why...

...thank you so very much for that reply because it encapsulates everything that I grown to love about you...you are truly a gentleman and a scholar...

...have a wonderful day...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

I guess you didn't pay attention to the sound of that sentence. Quite nauseating... The horrific things in his life wouldn't be "too bad" had he had no talent?

...you are absolutely right, seems I wasn't paying enough attention and that was a terrible sentence and I apologize/feel foolish for writing it....the sentiment that was I trying to convey was that his life could have been wonderful ( given at the very least, the physical gifts he was "given" at birth, and the cycling success he enjoyed ) but was horribly scuppered by events way beyond his control...in fact after reading the Men's Journal article I felt quite badly that his life has turned out so awful in so many ways...in fact it has changed my view of the man...

Cheers

blutto

 

[red_flanders]

That Lemond has 70,000 pages of anything is strange.

Seems normal after going through the court case with Trek. It was previously reported that the investigation was interested in the documents of that case. It doesn't strike me as strange at all that he'd have all that documentation.

 

[callac]

Blutto, thank you for making it clear and correcting the sentence.

 

[blutto]

No, he loves child molesters.

...so are telling us that Mr LeMond knew something on that hill and in that timeframe that hadn't happened yet...so in actuality he really wasn't chasing down a team-mate but actually meting out justice...gosh that is Philip K. **** territory a la Minority Report...maybe I underestimated Greg's super dooper powers...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

Blutto, thank you for making it clear and correcting the sentence.

...you are so welcome...and by the way thanks for bringing that to my attention...hope the apology is sufficient because I was feeling pretty stupid when I first saw your post..

Cheers

blutto

 

[gillan1969]

...well we have admittedly seen a great deal of tar stick to one side of that dime...but please the other side is not really so shiny and clean...

...in point of fact Mr LeMond is a cheat ( granted it is in the biblical sense but we are talking cheaters are we not )( see...Greg LeMond vs. The World...Men's Journal ...which incidently if you read will show our boy is pretty "damaged goods"...he has had a very sad life it seems...really too bad because he was an amazing talent... )

...and there has been a fair bit of "bending of truth" in Mr LeMond's career...the accusations levelled at Moreno Argentin immediately after the 85 World Championships are a good example ( though to be fair he did later recant the accusations but this after maintaining them for the better part of a year )...and of course there is the changing story surrounding his leaving the sport...I believe it went from busted mitochondria to the "I couldn't compete because everyone but me was using drugs" schtick ( which is, come to think of it, kinda a variation of the "they are all against me" theme that keeps cropping up thru-out his career)...

...and we really won't go into detail into his wretched performances as a team-mate but his work at Goodwood in 82 is worth a look to get a flavour of the man...

Cheers

blutto

Lemond was clear in '82 that he was riding as an individual. The US I believe only had the two of them riding and Boyer would have been caught irrespective of Lemonds dig towards the end. You don't act as a team when there is only two of you. Besides as small nations know, you ride the worlds for your trade team, or the trade team who you hope will be hiring you for the next season....not for the greater glory of the mother nation

there are mortgages to pay

lemond was an amazing talent...one who was great from junior days right through his career...that he dropped off so rapidly was perplexing for fans so god knows what it was like for the rider...

 

[blutto]

Lemond was clear in '82 that he was riding as an individual. The US I believe only had the two of them riding and Boyer would have been caught irrespective of Lemonds dig towards the end. You don't act as a team when there is only two of you. Besides as small nations know, you ride the worlds for your trade team, or the trade team who you hope will be hiring you for the next season....not for the greater glory of the mother nation

there are mortgages to pay

lemond was an amazing talent...one who was great from junior days right through his career...that he dropped off so rapidly was perplexing for fans so god knows what it was like for the rider...

....correct me if I'm wrong but LeMond was competing with an American jersey on his back not the jersey that represented the Kingdom of LeMondia....and he certainly milked that seemingly tenuous Yankee connection in his subseqent wins at the World's and the Tour didn't he...but I guess if all you are chasing is the money its any port in a storm...it does however put one in a very odd light...i.e. a cynical money grubbing scumbag who only cares about himself when its convenient and joins the team when that is convenient....compare that attitude to riders with real class...Argentin w/ Corti, Kelly w/ Roche and Indurain w/Olano....

...do be cautious here young man....just remember the disguise the anti-christ will use when he comes....

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

Do you like child molesters?

My Dearest Mr. Wheat,

....I totally forgot to thank you in my first response to your comment for the way in which you rose to the bait....your response was so much more than I could have ever hoped for...

...so...thank you so very much....

...hope your day is going as well as mine....

Cheers

blutto

 

[Dr. Maserati]

....correct me if I'm wrong but LeMond was competing with an American jersey on his back not the jersey that represented the Kingdom of LeMondia....and he certainly milked that seemingly tenuous Yankee connection in his subseqent wins at the World's and the Tour didn't he...but I guess if all you are chasing is the money its any port in a storm...it does however put one in a very odd light...i.e. a cynical money grubbing scumbag who only cares about himself when its convenient and joins the team when that is convenient....compare that attitude to riders with real class...Argentin w/ Corti, Kelly w/ Roche and Indurain w/Olano....

...do be cautious here young man....just remember the disguise the anti-christ will use when he comes....

Cheers

blutto

While I don't think LeMond should have chased after Boyer - the list of class riders you have posted were as ruthless, and in the case of Kelly probaly none moreso.

And you should probably drop the "money grabbing scumbag" angle because I doubt it compares to the recently released details of a certain rider and and their brand.

 

[ChrisE]

While I don't think LeMond should have chased after Boyer - the list of class riders you have posted were as ruthless, and in the case of Kelly probaly none moreso.

And you should probably drop the "money grabbing scumbag" angle because I doubt it compares to the recently released details of a certain rider and and their brand.

It always boils down to that, doesn't it doc? If it doesn't rise to the level of what LA has done or is then it shouldn't be discussed.

By your reasoning Charles Manson is a choir boy since Ted Bundy killed more people.

 

[callac]

correct me if I'm wrong but LeMond was competing with an American jersey on his back

Indeed, but until LeMond won the world title in 1983, the notion of US team just wasn't there... The World championship was used by US cycling as the US championship: the first American to finish was named US pro champion (there wasn't a US pro championship before 1985), and LeMond made it clear he didn't want to race it this way, but wanted to go for the world title. I find it a "better use" of the American jersey than just trying to finish as the first American (which seemed like what Boyer was going for... )

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It always boils down to that, doesn't it doc? If it doesn't rise to the level of what LA has done or is then it shouldn't be discussed.

By your reasoning Charles Manson is a choir boy since Ted Bundy killed more people.

I never said it should not be discussed - but you are correct in that it doesn't rise to LA's level.

 

[ChrisE]

I never said it should not be discussed - but you are correct in that it doesn't rise to LA's level.

Yes, you are right. Only the name-calling should be throttled back if they don't rise to the level of what LA has done or is.

It's not possible for somebody to be a "money grubbing scumbag" if they have "money grubbed" less than LA, especially if the accused is saint GL.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes, you are right. Only the name-calling should be throttled back if they don't rise to the level of what LA has done or is.

It's not possible for somebody to be a "money grubbing scumbag" if they have "money grubbed" less than LA, especially if the accused is saint GL.

Not sure what you are really on about.

If you don't like the term, then address the poster that made it originaly.

 

[blutto]

Indeed, but until LeMond won the world title in 1983, the notion of US team just wasn't there... The World championship was used by US cycling as the US championship: the first American to finish was named US pro champion (there wasn't a US pro championship before 1985), and LeMond made it clear he didn't want to race it this way, but wanted to go for the world title. I find it a "better use" of the American jersey than just trying to finish as the first American (which seemed like what Boyer was going for... )

...oh come on!...I just happen to have had several friends who were on that hill that day and then saw the tv coverage after...and in their opinion Boyer was going for the win...in fact he was gone until "somebody" dragged the remaining field up to him...

...and by the way how is hauling Saronni/Kelly etc up to the break trying to win the title...Saronni put ten bike lengths into LeMond by the finish line... if he was playing it straight, (ie going for the win) that is one of the stupidest moves I've ever seen....however it does make sense if his primary intention was to deny Boyer the win....

...LeMond's desire then, as it is now, is to be the bestest American...whether it was Boyer then or Armstrong now he needs to be the much more bestest American cyclist ever and as in 82 its whatever it takes...in 82 he destroyed his own chance to deny Boyer...gawd knows what he is capable of now...because we know he has the money....so what is the name of his PR firm?....

Cheers

blutto

 

[Dr. Maserati]

...oh come on!...I just happen to have had several friends who were on that hill that day and then saw the tv coverage after...and in their opinion Boyer was going for the win...in fact he was gone until "somebody" dragged the remaining field up to him...

...and by the way how is hauling Saronni/Kelly etc up to the break trying to win the title...Saronni put ten bike lengths into LeMond by the finish line... if he was playing it straight, (ie going for the win) that is one of the stupidest moves I've ever seen....however it does make sense if his primary intention was to deny Boyer the win....

...LeMond's desire then, as it is now, is to be the bestest American...whether it was Boyer then or Armstrong now he needs to be the much more bestest American cyclist ever and as in 82 its whatever it takes...in 82 he destroyed his own chance to deny Boyer...gawd knows what he is capable of now...because we know he has the money....so what is the name of his PR firm?....

Cheers

blutto

Second time you have brought it up - and its the second time I will ask - what is the name of his PR firm?

 

[redtreviso]

...oh come on!...I just happen to have had several friends who were on that hill that day and then saw the tv coverage after...and in their opinion Boyer was going for the win...in fact he was gone until "somebody" dragged the remaining field up to him...

...and by the way how is hauling Saronni/Kelly etc up to the break trying to win the title...Saronni put ten bike lengths into LeMond by the finish line... if he was playing it straight, (ie going for the win) that is one of the stupidest moves I've ever seen....however it does make sense if his primary intention was to deny Boyer the win....

...LeMond's desire then, as it is now, is to be the bestest American...whether it was Boyer then or Armstrong now he needs to be the much more bestest American cyclist ever and as in 82 its whatever it takes...in 82 he destroyed his own chance to deny Boyer...gawd knows what he is capable of now...because we know he has the money....so what is the name of his PR firm?....

Cheers

blutto

Do you whine about Alexi Grewal denying Davis Phinney?

 

[gillan1969]

....correct me if I'm wrong but LeMond was competing with an American jersey on his back not the jersey that represented the Kingdom of LeMondia....and he certainly milked that seemingly tenuous Yankee connection in his subseqent wins at the World's and the Tour didn't he...but I guess if all you are chasing is the money its any port in a storm...it does however put one in a very odd light...i.e. a cynical money grubbing scumbag who only cares about himself when its convenient and joins the team when that is convenient....compare that attitude to riders with real class...Argentin w/ Corti, Kelly w/ Roche and Indurain w/Olano....

...do be cautious here young man....just remember the disguise the anti-christ will use when he comes....

Cheers


blutto

well for one he was clear with roche in the 85 tour and held back on team orders to help ensure a hinault and french team victory....so yup...