Michael Rogers

[Benotti69]

Yes they do. They have their 'no riders who have ever doped policy'. Previously, they had the 'no-one on the staff' with connections to doping.

These policies come from managers at BSkyB - not Brailsford, who has often picked Millar for GB.

The policies are idealistic, unrealistic and I doubt Brailsford believes really in them. But that doesn't mean he condones doping though. He also realises that it means he'll get a lot of flack which he can't be truly honest about because of some suit in Isleworth.

Rogers they'll probably know that he doped in the past. Same with Julich, perhaps Yates. But he knows what they are now.

Leinders - F*** up. Pure and simple. He may yet turn out to be OK. If he was involved in doping (as yet unproven) I doubt Rabobank would admit to it to them or anyone who was there - clean or dirty .

Brailsford admitted to throwing that policy out the window 2 years ago!

Better do some reading in here.

Cycling is a small sport. Everyone in the sport knows pretty much what is going on in the sport. Brailsford shock was pure lies.

Team Sky are a lie. They dope. Of course they do.

 

[Franklin]

Leinders - F*** up. Pure and simple. He may yet turn out to be OK. If he was involved in doping (as yet unproven) I doubt Rabobank would admit to it to them or anyone who was there - clean or dirty .

Might I say one thing?

GET THE BLOODY FACTS STRAIGHT YOU APPOLOGIST!

Leinders (as part of the management team) was judged to be fraudulent in the whereabouts of Michael Rasmussen. And that's not Cas or another arbitration, but a real judge who gave that judgement. And yes, this was in the public domain.

My god, this is really insane. How much handwaving are we going to see about Leinders?

 

[Parker]

Brailsford admitted to throwing that policy out the window 2 years ago!

Which policy? The one about staff? Yes, I know.

The one about riders, I believe, remains. Which is why Barry had to lie to them. At Garmin that wouldn't have happened. Which is my point. And I think Brailsford agrees with me.

Remember that Brailsford does not dictate policy. BSkyB do.

 

[Parker]

Might I say one thing?

GET THE BLOODY FACTS STRAIGHT YOU APPOLOGIST!

Leinders (as part of the management team) was judged to be fraudulent in the whereabouts of Michael Rasmussen. And that's not Cas or another arbitration, but a real judge who gave that judgement. And yes, this was in the public domain.

My god, this is really insane. How much handwaving are we going to see about Leinders?

Do you have a link? I'm willing to learn.

I'm not saying that Leinders has never done anything wrong - he probably has. But people are expecting Sky to know information a year or more before anyone else did. They're not psychics.

 

[ferryman]

Which policy? The one about staff? Yes, I know.

The one about riders, I believe, remains. Which is why Barry had to lie to them. At Garmin that wouldn't have happened. Which is my point. And I think Brailsford agrees with me.

Remember that Brailsford does not dictate policy. BSkyB do.

What complete and utter drivel. Stripped down:

Brailsford to Leinders - have you doped anyone in the past. 'No'

Brailsford to Barry - have you doped in the past. 'No'

Excellent, you are both in. Welcome to Team Sky. Remember we don't dope or even talk about doping here.

 

[Franklin]

Do you have a link? I'm willing to learn.

I'm not saying that Leinders has never done anything wrong - he probably has. But people are expecting Sky to know information a year or more before anyone else did. They're not psychics.

More apologist drivel.

The case Rasmussen-Rabo where the management team was exposed to be fraudulent is from 2008. And before this comes up again: Leinders was part of the Management team, that being the triumvirate Breukink, de Rooij and Leinders. Rasmussen claimed specifically all three managers were informed. The managers denied. The judge agreed with Michael Rasmussen

There is a ton of info in Dutch on this case:

First of there is the newspaper reporting
http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4324/nieu...aan-het-adres-van-ploegleiding-Rabobank.dhtml

Then there is the judicial case which Michael Rasmussen (at least partly) won.

http://www.marinusvromans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Sport-en-Recht-Rasmussen-Rabo.pdf

Lazy google translate:

On June 6, 2007 Rasmussen in Italy Breukink, also general manager of Rabobank, meet and between them is the preparation for the Tour de France 2007 are discussed.
On June 8, 2007, Rasmussen was sent from Italy to the Anti-Doping Commission informed of a visit to Mexico from 4 June to 12 June.
On 12 June, Rasmussen a letter from Mexico to the post made ​​to the UCI to informto 28 June 2007 that he would remain in Mexico. The UCI received that letter on 29 June 2007.
On 15 June 2007, Rasmussen asked Breukink to send the routes of the Alps to Stages by mail, the next day by the DS de Rooij sent those to Rasmussen at his home address in Italy by fax. From 25 to 29 June 2007, Rasmussen with Rabo trained in the Pyrenees. Team manager De Rooij this training Rabo telephoned to the UCI.

Add the warnings of the Danish union etc. The management team (Breukink, de Rooij, Leinders) knew alright. The correspondence between Rasmussen and the team also shows that this was all really in the open and without any holding back.

When later the management team claimed to have "forgotten" the judge probably bust a vessel

There is no way to wiggle out of this. Leinders was absolutely involved with whereabouts (and thus doping) fraud. That neither the Dutch Union, the UCI, IOC nor WADA acted upon the management team is still one of the mysteries surrounding this case.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Then what he is compared to for this 5-7% increase? the level when he is 10?
Obviously when people talking about increase like that, they are referring to compare with their best level before. That is just common sense.

How about last year? Why the hell would that be illogical?

 

[Parker]

What complete and utter drivel. Stripped down:

Brailsford to Leinders - have you doped anyone in the past. 'No'

Brailsford to Barry - have you doped in the past. 'No'

Excellent, you are both in. Welcome to Team Sky. Remember we don't dope or even talk about doping here.

There are two forces at work here. There is the indealistic board at the English BSkyB - they want something that really isn't possible. And there's the more pragmatic Celt, David Brailsford.

Downtroden Welshman Dave Brailsford has tried to operate under these circumstances - he is wise, he knows the history of the sport and the practicalities. When they started up Sky he tried to hire the Scottish David Millar, but the English elite said no.

Maybe Brailsford is slowly trying to turn the tide against the English oppresion against him. They may take Rogers. They may take Barry. But they will never take his freedom.

 

[ferryman]

There are two forces at work here. There is the indealistic board at the English BSkyB - they want something that really isn't possible. And there's the more pragmatic Celt, David Brailsford.

Downtroden Welshman Dave Brailsford has tried to operate under these circumstances - he is wise, he knows the history of the sport and the practicalities. When they started up Sky he tried to hire the Scottish David Millar, but the English elite said no.

Maybe Brailsford is slowly trying to turn the tide against the English oppresion against him. They may take Rogers. They may take Barry. But they will never take his freedom.

You are very clever and have completely got me with your rapier like English wit and gentle insight. Bowler hat off to you. Now feel free to continue with your complete drivel now that is off your chest.

 

[Parker]

You are very clever and have completely got me with your rapier like English wit and gentle insight. Bowler hat off to you. Now feel free to continue with your complete drivel now that is off your chest.

I'm Welsh. And I loathe the English hating BS that the likes of you propogate. It's just childish.

 

[maxmartin]

How about last year? Why the hell would that be illogical?

Did he specifically said in the interview that he is comparing with his last year level????? Apparently he did not, then common sense is that he is referring to his best level before. So what are you confused about? You do have some common sense, do you?

Originally Posted by maxmartin
His physiological data and power output in Tour this year is better than his days associated with Dr. Ferrari. For me that is almost an absolute sign that he is doping right now in the SKY team.

Oh yeah Virus!!! Rogers and Froom miraculously increased their performance, because SKY detected and cured their virus problems. Give me a break!!!

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Sky dont have an "overly stringent recruitment policy" in case you didn't notice!

They took on Michael Barry, Sean Yates, Morris Possoni, and Geert Leinders to name 4.

Now what did they do with their "overly stringent recruitment policy" again?

to name 4? how about you name 4 others? and before being signed by sky, barry and possoni at least had nothing against them

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Did he specifically said in the interview that he is comparing with his last year level????? Apparently he did not, then common sense is that he is referring to his best level before. So what are you confused about? You do have some common sense, do you?

Originally Posted by maxmartin
His physiological data and power output in Tour this year is better than his days associated with Dr. Ferrari. For me that is almost an absolute sign that he is doping right now in the SKY team.

Oh yeah Virus!!! Rogers and Froom miraculously increased their performance, because SKY detected and cured their virus problems. Give me a break!!!

how about getting older and getting better? especially since this is forgers first year in many years without injuries

 

[ferryman]

I'm Welsh. And I loathe the English hating BS that the likes of you propogate. It's just childish.

Try and not sound like an English *** then the next time you post. Because you sure sound like one.

 

[maxmartin]

how about getting older and getting better? especially since this is forgers first year in many years without injuries

better than his days associated with Dr. Ferrari???
That is my point, if you believe that then I have nothing to argue about.

 

[Ferminal]

Rogers said he has increased his threshold power by 5-7% this year. You added the "compared to his best years" without basis.

The "best ever" was reported on Stage 8 of the Tour.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Did he specifically said in the interview that he is comparing with his last year level????? Apparently he did not, then common sense is that he is referring to his best level before. So what are you confused about? You do have some common sense, do you?

There is no common sense behind that assumption whatsoever, for god's sake! It's more reasonable to assume he meant compared to his sh***y last year. Since joining Sky. Since working with miracle-Tim.

Here's a completely hypothetical example that might help you get your head around the very simple logic. In 2006, rider X could sustain 450 watts, but in 2011, he was only capable of 410 watts. This year, he improved to 430 watts due to "changes in his training program". Now, do you think rider X would say; "I've improved my FTP by 5%" or "my FTP has declined by 4-5%" when discussing the impact of the new "training program"?

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Tell us about the result at the Dauphiné and also how you feel about coming back into the winner’s circle after more-or-less having to write off 2011.

Michael Rogers: “Last year was a season that I had to cross off, certainly on the sporting side of things but I think that I’m actually really grateful that it happened because it allows you to see things from a completely different perspective.

“I’ve made a big decision to change my mental approach, really.

“I was always running around trying to be someone that I wasn’t. I was training too much and trying to be superman all the time – trying to be the bike rider that I wasn’t. And I just said, ‘Enough is enough.’ I was sick of trying to do all that and so I went back to what I was doing as a kid… and I based that decision on what I’ve learned over the years.

“Early in my career I won some big races and I got to this level doing things a certain way and it must’ve been right for me. Clearly it did work.

“Trying to be the person that I wasn’t in the bike riding sense wasn’t working; it was full of disappointments and morale blows and I’d had enough of it really.”

Can you isolate the changes you’ve made? Is it more a mental approach or have you resorted to older training methods? What’s making the difference?

Michael Rogers: “It’s a mix of both really. Obviously, it starts with the mental approach and finishes with the way I handle the training. I was always a time trial rider when I was a kid – that was my best discipline – and I went back to doing what I’d done when training for that. And I wasn’t trying to go full peg up mountains all day like I’ve been doing the last couple of years.

“I went back to my time trial work and the pleasant surprise is that – because I’m starting to get that good strength back – was climbing just as well as I ever have in the past.”

Can you offer any SRM data or some feedback that we can relate to? Are you heavier now? Lighter? What sort of power are you generating?

Michael Rogers: “I’ve seen a five to seven per cent increase in my general threshold power. And that’s great. It’s also come from working with Tim Kerrison of Team Sky, as Bradley has – and as have most of the guys in the Tour team… we’ve all been training under his guidance and he’s bringing some fresh thoughts into it for all of us.

“There’s a bit of variation and a lot of the techniques have come from his background in swimming. And so far it’s been working well.”

Gee, I can't figure out whether the 5-7% improvement is compared to his distant Ferrari years or last year.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

The "best ever" was reported on Stage 8 of the Tour.

The argument should be; "back at his Ferrari-level (or thereabouts)", not "Rogers said he's 5-7% stronger than when working with Ferrari! ZOMG! ".

 

[Ferminal]

The argument should be; "back at his Ferrari-level (or thereabouts)", not "Rogers said he's 5-7% stronger than when working with Ferrari! ZOMG! ".

Yes that is up to interpretation.

The easy way to solve it is to look at the data.

 

[movingtarget]

how about getting older and getting better? especially since this is forgers first year in many years without injuries

He has had ongoing battles with glandular fever. The problem athletes have with glandular fever is that it keeps recurring in some people because of the intense training and the stress they put their bodies under. Rogers rode well this year in a support role but still not as well as he did in the 2007 Tour when he crashed out when he looked like he was in great form. Measurements don't always mean much. Lots of riders probably look good physiologically, on paper but don't necessarily get race results that count. Rogers has always had talent and apart from the Worlds TT Titles you would have to say he is an underachiever considering what he promised early in his career. I think health problems played a role in that.

 

[the sceptic]

Lets hope this glandular fever doesnt come back now that the good dr Leinders is not with team sky anymore.

 

[maxmartin]

There is no common sense behind that assumption whatsoever, for god's sake! It's more reasonable to assume he meant compared to his sh***y last year. Since joining Sky. Since working with miracle-Tim.

there is no point to argue with you if you don't even have common sense to understand words. If you want to use your own unique way to interpret things, go head be my guest. Don't expect majority normal people will stand by your side. And I am not going to reply on this issue any more, it is getting stale.

 

[blackcat]

Rogers is australian. ergo does not dope

 

[sairyder]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...-they-have-not-breached-drug-free-policy.html

This might be difficult