Official Alberto Contador hearing thread

[Publicus]

Maybe, but change is still remarkable. During first 4 years as a pro he gets what, 5 stage wins from here and there. During first 4 months with Bryneel, he will be a champion of PN, Leon, TDF...

People should just stop making up revisionist history and think themselves back to the fall of 2006, read some papers or forums of that time, what names are mentioned, what names are not. To make it even clearer. Nibali, 2 years younger than Contador, no teamleader himself, ranked 36 in 2006 CQ Rankings, way ahead of Contador. If someone would made a question in 2006 who will be a big star of the future, Nibali or Contador? Well, answer was obvious.

Probably doesn't help that AC's team was effectively shut down prior to the 2006 Tour de France--which was one of his targets for the year, so it's hard to draw any conclusions about their relative worth in 2006.

AC's CQ rankings: 2005 (41), 2006 (66), 2007 (5), 2008 (2), 2009 (2), 2010 (2), 2011 (2)

Nibbles: 2005 (380), 2006 (36), 2007 (41), 2008 (66), 2009 (28), 2010 (1), 2011 (22)

 

[Cimber]

Yep. I linked that upthread: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=779803&postcount=1351

So maybe it's not a foregone conclusion, as far as he's concerned.

Ye thats what I read into it as well.

 

[python]

Contador isnt as calm and collected as we seem to think. He is (of course) a wreck and have been for 500+ days:

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012...for-the-best-with-cas-decision-looming_204945

let see...

if he was calm and collected, as was proposed on this thread many times, it would be (to some) an indication he knows the verdict b/c he corrupted the arbs (again, this irony -my smileys are disabled by no script)

and conversely, is not being calm and collected, a proof he did not do such a dark deed ? (irony)

 

[doolols]

if he was calm and collected, as was proposed on this thread many times, it would be (to some) an indication he knows the verdict b/c he corrupted the arbs (again, this irony -my smileys are disabled by no script)

and conversely, is not being calm and collected, a proof he did not do such a dark deed ? (irony)

Sort of. Before that interview, the impression I got was of a confident AC - whether he knew the decision, or had been told he could be confident of the decision. I never really thought the bribing was on, TBH - although the training camp and good works over there did look a bit suspicious.

Now, I'm happier that he doesn't appear to know the decision, and seems to know almost as little as we do.

The interview was another interesting piece of the AC doping story. At this late stage, and this close to the decision (allegedly), any little snipped of information is snatched up.

Another day down, another day closer to next Monday (or whenever) ...

 

[sniper]

Sort of. Before that interview, the impression I got was of a confident AC - whether he knew the decision, or had been told he could be confident of the decision. I never really thought the bribing was on, TBH - although the training camp and good works over there did look a bit suspicious.

Now, I'm happier that he doesn't appear to know the decision, and seems to know almost as little as we do.

The interview was another interesting piece of the AC doping story. At this late stage, and this close to the decision (allegedly), any little snipped of information is snatched up.

Another day down, another day closer to next Monday (or whenever) ...

it was suggested by someone in this thread (a couple of weeks back already) who had a friend (who had a friend..) who rides with AC occasionally, that AC knows the verdict already, and that he had been telling during training rides with friends that he was going to get off...

a bit vague, i know, but it was posted somewhere in this thread in any case.

 

[doolols]

it was suggested by someone in this thread (a couple of weeks back already) who had a friend (who had a friend..) who rides with AC occasionally, that AC knows the verdict already, and that he had been telling about it during training rides with friends.

a bit vague, i know, but it was posted somewhere in this thread in any case.

I know - there's always the possibility that the interview was a little scripted. All the pictures I've seen of him this year show a huge smile on his face. It certainly doesn't look like someone worried about the outcome.

More conspiracy ...

 

[python]

I know - there's always the possibility that the interview was a little scripted. ...:

i doubt little that some of bert's statements - in general not necessarily the interview - were designed to promote his positive image or confidence. that's part of any celeb in trouble. some are good at smoke and mirrors, some are not so good...after all, they are surrounded by media almost 24/7 hungry for ANY sloppy pic or a phrase.

i don't know if bert is a good actor (like for ex armstrong). the closest i come to interpreting his 'smoke and mirrors' skill would be his absolute calm for weeks when it turned out the uci told him to keep his mouth shut on learning about the positive.

that said, the interview however, to me at least, does not look like spinning. he is worried like anyone in his shoes would and like he should...

 

[hrotha]

Contador is a good actor - remember the "SORRY GUISE" video after Chaingate?

 

[Nilsson]

Maybe, but change is still remarkable. During first 4 years as a pro he gets what, 5 stage wins from here and there. During first 4 months with Bryneel, he will be a champion of PN, Leon, TDF...

People should just stop making up revisionist history and think themselves back to the fall of 2006, read some papers or forums of that time, what names are mentioned, what names are not. To make it even clearer. Nibali, 2 years younger than Contador, no teamleader himself, ranked 36 in 2006 CQ Rankings, way ahead of Contador. If someone would made a question in 2006 who will be a big star of the future, Nibali or Contador? Well, answer was obvious.

You can't be serious. You should really dig deeper into race and result specifics - and, if possible, look back some racing from those days. Even a blind man could see more clearly...

 

[Nilsson]

it was suggested by someone in this thread (a couple of weeks back already) who had a friend (who had a friend..) who rides with AC occasionally, that AC knows the verdict already, and that he had been telling during training rides with friends that he was going to get off...

a bit vague, i know, but it was posted somewhere in this thread in any case.

It was even, to use your vocabulary, more vague. He didn't tell anyone anything: he supposedly winked to someone and seemed happy on the bike.

 

[sniper]

It was even, to use your vocabulary, more vague. He didn't tell anyone anything: he supposedly winked to someone and seemed happy on the bike.

exactly, so it was suggested...
"to suggest: to mention or imply as a possibility"

 

[Nilsson]

I know - there's always the possibility that the interview was a little scripted. All the pictures I've seen of him this year show a huge smile on his face. It certainly doesn't look like someone worried about the outcome.

More conspiracy ...

Let's see...

Bad news. News came in just one of the arbitrators is on board...

Still disappointed about the reluctant arbitrators (N.B. a source within the peloton says Bert just didn't like the weather)

Some good news may come, but, unlike Bert himself, still not all of them signed...

 

[Nilsson]

Definitely good news.

Confirmation. Two arbitrators on board, one to go. The girl insists she gets the job done, and if necessary the other is more than willing to help...

The third, however, isn't interested in the girls. He just want's more money. Bert's furious...

 

[Von Mises]

Maybe you're forgetting his 2005 season, which incidentally was his first complete one after the one of his debut (at 20)? You're the revisionist here. Contador was always touted as a huge talent. He didn't come out of nowhere.

As for your question, in 2006 I'd definitely have answered "Contador," at least for GTs.

I have never said that he came out of nowhere. Manolo Saiz used to describe Contador "good climber with ablity to time trial". Contador himself said in 2006 interviews that his goal during next years is to reach top 5-6.

So yes, he was talented, yes he was considered future contender, but there is a big difference between winning few stages and winning Paris-Nice, Castilla y León, Tour De France in a row. There is a difference between "good climber with ability to TT" and "natural freak".

To make myself very clear: he was talented, if he had finished TDF 2007 top 10 and Paris-Nice top3, yeah, very-very good, this would be considerd natural progression. But his leap in 2007 with Bryneel was definetly unexpected.

 

[BYOP88]

I have never said that he came out of nowhere. Manolo Saiz used to describe Contador "good climber with ablity to time trial". Contador himself said in 2006 interviews that his goal during next years is to reach top 5-6.

So yes, he was talented, yes he was considered future contender, but there is a big difference between winning few stages and winning Paris-Nice, Castilla y León, Tour De France in a row. There is a difference between "good climber with ability to TT" and "natural freak".

To make myself very clear: he was talented, if he had finished TDF 2007 top 10 and Paris-Nice top3, yeah, very-very good, this would be considerd natural progression. But his leap in 2007 with Bryneel was definetly unexpected.

But look who he was up against in the 2007 TdF.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Let's see...

Bad news. News came in just one of the arbitrators is on board...

image

Still disappointed about the reluctant arbitrators (N.B. a source within the peloton says Bert just didn't like the weather)

image

Some good news may come, but, unlike Bert himself, still not all of them signed...

image

Definitely good news.

image

Confirmation. Two arbitrators on board, one to go. The girl insists she gets the job done, and if necessary the other is more than willing to help...

image

The third, however, isn't interested in the girls. He just want's more money. Bert's furious...

image

Lol! Great job man.

 

[Nilsson]

I have never said that he came out of nowhere. Manolo Saiz used to describe Contador "good climber with ablity to time trial". Contador himself said in 2006 interviews that his goal during next years is to reach top 5-6.

So yes, he was talented, yes he was considered future contender, but there is a big difference between winning few stages and winning Paris-Nice, Castilla y León, Tour De France in a row. There is a difference between "good climber with ability to TT" and "natural freak".

To make myself very clear: he was talented, if he had finished TDF 2007 top 10 and Paris-Nice top3, yeah, very-very good, this would be considerd natural progression. But his leap in 2007 with Bryneel was definetly unexpected.

How would you describe Froome? He was already two years older than Contador when he almost won the Vuelta (he even should have won it), literally out of nowhere.

Or, more on a level playing field, Merckx or Ullrich?

Contador wasn't just some talent. Just ask Inigo San Millan...

Former ONCE and now Garmin-Transitions physiologist Iñigo San Millán has clear memories of Contador's initial tests when he joined the powerful Spanish team in 2003 as a 20-year-old. "He was just a young kid but he was the one who went the furthest in the effort tests to the point where he exceeded the protocols,"

The only problem you seem to have is that he could win the Tour. I mean, even you should acknowledge that in the years before he already did win smaller stage races, was close to or should have. It wasn't surprising that he finally (what's a bit strange to say when someone is 24) won Paris-Nice. It was what to expect...

Apart from the fact that the 2007 Tour wasn't normal, due to the Rasmussen drama, Contador already had beaten all of his competitors. Since day one in the peloton he was able to go head-to-head with guys like Leipheimer and Evans. He already left them behind in both mountain top finishes and time trials, even if they were much older and more experienced. That, finally riding it again, being in a good team, being more mature (what, again, is strange to say for a 24 year old) isn't from nowhere. Of course is was a surprise he actually did it, but it's not that he never showed the potential before (on the contrary)...

I really think this discussion isn't fair. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. The only thing you do is pleading him guilty for being 'not normal' (which, of course, he isn't) and unjustly questioning his progression and ability to win big races...

 

[Ferminal]

Apart from the fact that the 2007 Tour wasn't normal, due to the Rasmussen drama, Contador already had beaten all of his competitors. Since day one in the peloton he was able to go head-to-head with guys like Leipheimer and Evans. He already left them behind in both mountain top finishes and time trials, even if they were much older and more experienced. That, finally riding it again, being in a good team, being more mature (what, again, is strange to say for a 24 year old) isn't from nowhere. Of course is was a surprise he actually did it, but it's not that he never showed the potential before (on the contrary)...

Indeed, the feats of 2007 were hardly remarkable, it's not like he was beating mutliple GT winners. Sastre wasn't at his best, Evans was improving and a big favourite but hardly beyond the level you would expect from an immensely talented stage racer in Contador. Menchov wasn't quite there/riding for Rasmussen. Klöden was working for a battling Vino before he left.

Not trying to devalue the victory, as it was highly competitive in some stages, but it's not like he was up against 2006 Basso and Landis. He beat what was left post-Armstrong and post-Puerto.

 

[Fidolix]

I really think this discussion isn't fair. You're making a mountain out of a molehill. The only thing you do is pleading him guilty for being 'not normal' (which, of course, he isn't) and unjustly questioning his progression and ability to win big races...[/QUOTE]

Well said!!

 

[sniper]

(...)
Contador wasn't just some talent. Just ask Inigo San Millan...

I just did. And indeed, he sees a good positive trend of cleanliness in modern cycling. No more absurd climbing like in the EPO days. Although, he says, this positive trend started roughly in 2008, with Carlos Sastre, rather than in 2007.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/inigo-san-millan

 

[LaFlorecita]

I just did. And indeed, he sees a good positive trend of cleanliness in modern cycling. No more absurd climbing like in the EPO days. Although, he says, this positive trend started roughly in 2008, with Carlos Sastre, rather than in 2007.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/inigo-san-millan

And with that you're trying to show what...?

 

[The Hitch]

I just did.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/inigo-san-millan

You are Andy Shen?

 

[Cobblestoned]

Let's see...

Thank you Herr Nilsson.
That made me laugh.

 

[Angliru]

I have never said that he came out of nowhere. Manolo Saiz used to describe Contador "good climber with ablity to time trial". Contador himself said in 2006 interviews that his goal during next years is to reach top 5-6.

So yes, he was talented, yes he was considered future contender, but there is a big difference between winning few stages and winning Paris-Nice, Castilla y León, Tour De France in a row. There is a difference between "good climber with ability to TT" and "natural freak".

To make myself very clear: he was talented, if he had finished TDF 2007 top 10 and Paris-Nice top3, yeah, very-very good, this would be considerd natural progression. But his leap in 2007 with Bryneel was definetly unexpected.

Why hasn't this similar magic rubbed off on Machado, Pop or Brajkovic? Pop's growth seemed to slam to a complete halt upon joining Bruyneel.

 

[GJB123]

I just did. And indeed, he sees a good positive trend of cleanliness in modern cycling. No more absurd climbing like in the EPO days. Although, he says, this positive trend started roughly in 2008, with Carlos Sastre, rather than in 2007.

http://nyvelocity.com/content/interviews/2009/inigo-san-millan

No, he doesn't say that the positive trend started roughly in 2008 (which could still be 2007 if we take it roughly). That is totally your spin on a rather neutral answer he gives.

He gives an example whereby he compared splits and times for the ascent of the Alpe d'Huez for different decades to show that cycling has become cleaner. For that purpose he compares Sastre's attack from the bottom of the Alpe in 2008 with splits and times in the 90's and 80's and concludes that Sastre was much slower than in the 90's and about as fast as the fastest guys in 80's (pre-EPO). He couldn't have used 2007 for that comparison since the Alpe wasn't part of the 2007 course.

Regards
GJ