Pereiro goes berserk

[hrotha]

Whatever, but your can see clearly the point i am making, had pereiro been fom any other country, he wouldn't be tdf champion

As I said, I was just nitpicking. But if that was your point, then I disagree. How is he different from any other Tour winner? His doctor wasn't busted until long after his TdF victory anyway. How was Pereiro protected by the Spanish authorities?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But that stage win takes place after ten days riding when you have to keep up with the peloton, and he certainly was keeping up. He was only 6 minutes behind the leader.

And I guess to beat a doper sprinter in a climb you won't need to dope, but maybe you do to beat other not so good climbers.

Here are the riders in the breakaway on that day:
Aitor Pérez (Lampre) - climber but domestique
Vicente Reynes (HTC) - not a climber
Luís León Sánchez (Rabobank) - decent climber but not on form
David Bernabéu (Andalucía) - decent climber but old and didn't perform well all year
Adrián Palomares (Andalucía) - not much of a climber, break specialist
Juanjo Oroz (Euskaltel) - break specialist, not much of a climber
Evgeni Petrov (Katyusha) - decent but nothing spectacular in the hills
Joan Horrach (Katyusha) - not a great climber, has been injured, old
Beñat Intxausti (Movistar) - good climber, but mentally and physically not with it after Tondó's death
Sérgio Paulinho (Radioshack) - decent climber and stagehunter
Matteo Montaguti (AG2R) - an OK climber but nothing more
Michael Albasini (HTC) - decent climber and stagehunter, but not better than Moncoutié
Stuart O'Grady (Leopard) - not a climber
Jonas Jørgensen (Saxo) - not a climber
Manuel Quinziato (BMC) - not a climber

They were then joined by:
Amets Txurruka (Euskaltel) - OK climber, break specialist
Matthias Fränk (BMC) - decent climber, but expended a lot of energy bridging
Fabio Duarte (Geox) - very good climber, but young and only in his first GT.

So realistically, the only people you could expect would outclimb Moncoutié are Intxausti, Paulinho and Duarte; Albasini, Fränk and Sánchez on a good day. He had 6'44" at the base of the final climb and 3 minutes over Rodríguez at the finish, so the heads of state climbed nearly 4 minutes faster. And who were the ones who stayed closest to Moncoutié? Intxausti, Sánchez, Fränk and Paulinho.

And Moncoutié was at 10'28" before that stage.

 

[The Hitch]

You can tweet him @oscarpereiro...

at 5:50 of this video is the only thing you need to hear the realized that those guys know **** about cycling. the ******* with the moustache says "contador tested positive last year and its no causality that he couldn't win the tour this year and some other guy did" talk about being a clueless jackass

also god damn if i could i would send pereiro himself an email or something congratulating him for what he did on that show

We could do a CNF letter of gratitude. Those of us who support his cause sign it, put it on the internet, then tweet him with the link.

Obviously hrotha to write it and we just sign our names/ usernames.

Even if only 10 of us signed it, would still be good.

A great man confesses before he accuses.
It may be in the same sentence, but that's the order.

Anyone told Oscar yet?

If he confessed he would be laughed at and they would just throw cheap shots at him and labelled him a doper.

Hell he wouldnt even be on the show.

 

[Cloxxki]

If he confessed he would be laughed at and they would just throw cheap shots at him and labelled him a doper.

Hell he wouldnt even be on the show.

No need to get on a TV show if he'd confess and get his one significant win one man closer to the first non-doper.
Confess, surrender, and go away. Accusing other sports is semi-fine after that.
He's just working the UCI's agenda here. They may even have mentioned that he has certain responsibilities to the sport that has been so loyal and supportive of his accomplishments. Heck, if I were the UCI, I'd keep Oscar on a short leash. He got a lot, and still has a lot to lose.

 

[Parrulo]

We could do a CNF letter of gratitude. Those of us who support his cause sign it, put it on the internet, then tweet him with the link.

Obviously hrotha to write it and we just sign our names/ usernames.

Even if only 10 of us signed it, would still be good.




If he confessed he would be laughed at and they would just throw cheap shots at him and labelled him a doper.

Hell he wouldnt even be on the show.

i like this idea a lot!!!!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No need to get on a TV show if he'd confess and get his one significant win one man closer to the first non-doper.
Confess, surrender, and go away. Accusing other sports is semi-fine after that.
He's just working the UCI's agenda here. They may even have mentioned that he has certain responsibilities to the sport that has been so loyal and supportive of his accomplishments. Heck, if I were the UCI, I'd keep Oscar on a short leash. He got a lot, and still has a lot to lose.

He's not going around accusing other sports though.

He's gone on to a football show, to talk about football (he's now a footballer), and apropos of nothing they throw in a joke about cyclists doping. He's not gone on to that show to talk about doping in football, or doping in cycling. But these guys in a big glass house can't help themselves but throw stones while he's there. We'd all love cyclists to be more open and honest about what goes on, but that's what cycling shows are for, with people who know and understand the sport, not on Punto fricking Pelota with the idiots there whose idea of reasoned discourse on cycling is "hur-hur, dope, hur-hur" like they're Beavis and Butthead.

Kudos to him for winging one of those stones back. He might not smash up the glass house, but he might have given them something to think about. Who knows, this outburst might be the start of him heading towards confession. There were certainly implications in what he had to say. Baby steps. Remember, it took Floyd Landis several years and his life falling apart to confess. Óscar never said it was wrong that cycling had a problem, that it was bad that they were tested so much, but the point is that it's wrong for those complete buffoons who know nothing about what goes on (or wilfully hide it) to point and laugh at him like part of some travelling freak show. Óscar didn't defend cycling, nor did he deflect. Because he wasn't there to talk about cycling. They brought it up to make a joke and get a rise out of him.

 

[Albatros]

Here are the riders in the breakaway on that day:
Aitor Pérez (Lampre) - climber but domestique
Vicente Reynes (HTC) - not a climber
Luís León Sánchez (Rabobank) - decent climber but not on form
David Bernabéu (Andalucía) - decent climber but old and didn't perform well all year
Adrián Palomares (Andalucía) - not much of a climber, break specialist
Juanjo Oroz (Euskaltel) - break specialist, not much of a climber
Evgeni Petrov (Katyusha) - decent but nothing spectacular in the hills
Joan Horrach (Katyusha) - not a great climber, has been injured, old
Beñat Intxausti (Movistar) - good climber, but mentally and physically not with it after Tondó's death
Sérgio Paulinho (Radioshack) - decent climber and stagehunter
Matteo Montaguti (AG2R) - an OK climber but nothing more
Michael Albasini (HTC) - decent climber and stagehunter, but not better than Moncoutié
Stuart O'Grady (Leopard) - not a climber
Jonas Jørgensen (Saxo) - not a climber
Manuel Quinziato (BMC) - not a climber

They were then joined by:
Amets Txurruka (Euskaltel) - OK climber, break specialist
Matthias Fränk (BMC) - decent climber, but expended a lot of energy bridging
Fabio Duarte (Geox) - very good climber, but young and only in his first GT.

So realistically, the only people you could expect would outclimb Moncoutié are Intxausti, Paulinho and Duarte; Albasini, Fränk and Sánchez on a good day. He had 6'44" at the base of the final climb and 3 minutes over Rodríguez at the finish, so the heads of state climbed nearly 4 minutes faster. And who were the ones who stayed closest to Moncoutié? Intxausti, Sánchez, Fränk and Paulinho.

And Moncoutié was at 10'28" before that stage.

OK, I am not going to go into the intricacies of this particular case of which you surely know a lot and I know nothing.

My general stand is the same though, that to win something of note, riders have to dope. Maybe there is an exception in this case and this guy manages to win a stage from time to time being clean.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

OK, I am not going to go into the intricacies of this particular case of which you surely know a lot and I know nothing.

My general stand is the same though, that to win something of note, riders have to dope. Maybe there is an exception in this case and this guy manages to win a stage from time to time being clean.

I think that's it really. To win a GT, and most major stage races (possibly classics too, though they are more feasible to win clean since there's less need for day-on-day recovery), dope is probably required. To win minor stage and one-day races and win stages here and there (depending on how you do it), it probably isn't (though certainly many do).

 

[GotDropped]

Us

As I said, I was just nitpicking. But if that was your point, then I disagree. How is he different from any other Tour winner? His doctor wasn't busted until long after his TdF victory anyway. How was Pereiro protected by the Spanish authorities?

The same way valverde was protected, contador, inicialmente landaluce, mayo, marta domingueotz, spanish soccee players, etc... off the top of my head. Should i continue? Marta dominguez was caught red handed and got off scot free, and now represents a political party for fucs sack. Thats how rotten the system is in spain.

 

[hrotha]

Us

The same way valverde was protected, contador, inicialmente landaluce, mayo, marta domingueotz, spanish soccee players, etc... off the top of my head. Should i continue? Marta dominguez was caught red handed and got off scot free, and now represents a political party for fucs sack. Thats how rotten the system is in spain.

Err, unlike those examples you cite, Pereiro had nothing on his name. How is he different from every other top level cyclist of the time, the vast majority of which doped and had no trouble with the authorities of their countries?

 

[robertocarlos]

So now the root of all evil is Spain. What soccer team was in a video back in the 90's getting some vitamin shots. Why do Brazilians are prominent in every sport they practice. The USA has dominated the olympic sports, now the Jamaican runners are dominating. It is all Eugenio's fault.

 

[Forunculo]

So now the root of all evil is Spain. What soccer team was in a video back in the 90's getting some vitamin shots. Why do Brazilians are prominent in every sport they practice. The USA has dominated the olympic sports, now the Jamaican runners are dominating. It is all Eugenio's fault.

The chinese dominance is more suspicious to me than the americans or jamaicans.

 

[robertocarlos]

Actually with the largest genetic pool, it shouldn't. I have met Chinese kids any where from 5'5" @ 120lbs to 6'9"@290lbs. Maybe the Chinese hadn't put it in their minds to dominate, maybe the Spanish neither until recently, maybe it has to do with socioeconomical factors.

 

[Albatros]

So now the root of all evil is Spain. What soccer team was in a video back in the 90's getting some vitamin shots. Why do Brazilians are prominent in every sport they practice. The USA has dominated the olympic sports, now the Jamaican runners are dominating. It is all Eugenio's fault.

It is payback time. For all those years that Spanish athletes had to compete using second rate doping

Were the east German athletes the only ones doping during the 70's and 80's or was it that they hade the cutting edge on that department?

As we say in Spain, "El que no corre vuela".

The nub of the matter is that we are all cheaters by nature, regardless of nationality. So doping will be a perennial problem. At times some nation will take a strong stance against it, but it won;t last for long, cause at the end of the day we all want to win. That is what sport is about.

 

[La Pandera]

You obviously haven't got a clue about what I know and what I don't know. Not only that, you are been very disrespectful.

And I don't wish I was 14 cause the past is the past, but you even would come up short if you twisted the numbers, little internet warrior.

Stick to what you know which it is not the effects of doping on cyclists.

You yourself admitted not knowing anything about Moncoutie so how can you have an opinion on whether he is or is not clean? Out of respect for the person that you're denigrating at least take the time to read up on his background before accusing him of being like "the rest".

 

[La Pandera]

I agree with the logic of what you're saying and I'm happy that Pereiro stood up for himself/cycling in the face of unfair commentary from representatives/fans from an equally-dirty but completely free-from-being-persecuted sport like fútbol. My statement that it was rich of him to bemoan doping was made in the context of our general knowledge and understanding of the corruption in cycling...how we can see the hypocrisy and irony.

I still though think that it was pure folly to award the 2006 Tour to him after it was stripped from Landis. Likewise it would be pointless to take any of Armstrong's wins if he was convicted of cheating just to give them to the next-placed-rider who is also likely the next doper. When there is an after-the-fact anti-doping action like that and no possibility of subjecting the runner-up to the same kind of extended investigation, and therefore no way of ensuring that he was any less dirty, to not make a mockery of the Tour in the future, if you declass the winner, the title that year should be vacated. It makes for lack of harmony in the record books, sure, but otherwise you're just perpetuating a myth by passing along what's already in a sense become a tainted crown at that point.

If Contador is stripped of his Tour, Schleck should refuse to accept the win. That's a lot to ask, I know, and I would never have expected Pereiro to do anything other than grab at the title of champion and cry about how Landis had wronged him and the sport, but if someone like LeMond can refuse to wear yellow after inheriting off the back of a broken Rolf Sorensen in 1991, then there's hope that someone might make a more principled but controversial decision not to accept the overall win as a result of anything other than events happening on the road (ie, don't accept being elevated to race win to replace a "dirty" champion when you yourself may very well have been competing on equal terms, actually).

Probably will never happen though.

I apologize for not being totally familiar with your case but I have to ask: Did you give back the prize money and trophies from the gains of your ill-gotten wins and if so was it done voluntarily or as a result of your being caught red-handed?

 

[The Hitch]

This shows why the forum is in a totaly different league to CN. Weve been talking about it for 2 straight days and on the website only now have they put a simple article with 1 quote.

 

[Le breton]

...........

.

Just about your name :
Are you an admirer of the football player or of the singer?

I love the name of the city where the singer came from : Cachoeira de Itapemirim.

With so much music in the name of his town, no wonder he became a singer.

 

[Mambo95]

This shows why the forum is in a totaly different league to CN. Weve been talking about it for 2 straight days and on the website only now have they put a simple article with 1 quote.

On any topic (cycling, politics, TV, religion etc) you'll find that internet forums are more outspoken and daring than the mainstream media. On all those forums they congratulate themselves on how they are the true knowers of the truth, regardless of how bonkers they actually are. Some are more truthful than others, but they all share a stunning lack of self awareness.

 

[Albatros]

You yourself admitted not knowing anything about Moncoutie so how can you have an opinion on whether he is or is not clean? Out of respect for the person that you're denigrating at least take the time to read up on his background before accusing him of being like "the rest".

Applying what I know about the benefits of doping. I don't take it as a court case where you have to present strong factual evidence to support your case.

Without knowing the bloke at all if I was put against a wall and asked whether he doped or not, knowing that he has won several important stages my answer would be yes with what I know about doping and its effects on riders.

And this is nothing against this cyclist in particular who other poster brought about. I was making a general statement.

 

[La Pandera]

Yes, great stuff by Pereiro regarding football.
However, his defense of AC is misplaced ("he only took some picograms of clenbuterol").

Actually the moustached buttmunk seems to be right when he says that it's no coincidence that AC didn't win this year. I don't think it was just his post-Giro exhaustion.

..and the fact that each and everyone else in this era who tried to do the Giro-Tour double, also failed relatively miserably or at best failed to perform up to previous standards of Tour performance is something that simply doesn't register with you?

 

[The Hitch]

On any topic (cycling, politics, TV, religion etc) you'll find that internet forums are more outspoken and daring than the mainstream media. On all those forums they congratulate themselves on how they are the true knowers of the truth, regardless of how bonkers they actually are. Some are more truthful than others, but they all share a stunning lack of self awareness.

Your point being?

 

[Mambo95]

Your point being?

That when you say this forum is in 'a totally different league' to CN or anything, you're just deluding yourself. Generally the media is a little more sensible that an internet forum.

(Nothing to do with Oscar whatsoever though).

 

[La Pandera]

Us

The same way valverde was protected, contador, inicialmente landaluce, mayo, marta domingueotz, spanish soccee players, etc... off the top of my head. Should i continue? Marta dominguez was caught red handed and got off scot free, and now represents a political party for fucs sack. Thats how rotten the system is in spain.

Mayo??? If he were protected he'd likely still be riding.

 

[robertocarlos]

Just about your name :
Are you an admirer of the football player or of the singer?

I love the name of the city where the singer came from : Cachoeira de Itapemirim.

With so much music in the name of his town, no wonder he became a singer.

I was born in November 4th '81 and my paternal grandfather was Roberto.

And my mom was also a fan. I liked the footballer too and when I played I tried modeling my game after his, but I lacked the powerful left and the technique.