Pereiro goes berserk

[maltiv]

He vented a lot of anger, I think it has less to do with rationalizing doping in cycling but more with putting the fight against doping into perspective.
I've had this conversation with a lot of football lovin' friends and I have never been able to even get my point across to them (talk about brainwashed fanboys)
Power to you Oscar!

Indeed. It seems as if logic doesn't apply to them at all. I'm like "ok, so in football there's ****loads of money and they barely get tested, why wouldn't they dope?" and they'll go like "football is all about technique and teamplay and it's not worth the risk blabla" then I go like: "Dude, about half the players in moter****ing Kabbadi are doping, why wouldn't football players do the same?" At this point they're not listening anymore though...

 

[The Hitch]

Indeed. It seems as if logic doesn't apply to them at all. I'm like "ok, so in football there's ****loads of money and they barely get tested, why wouldn't they dope?" and they'll go like "football is all about technique and teamplay and it's not worth the risk blabla" then I go like: "Dude, about half the players in moter****ing Kabbadi are doping, why wouldn't football players do the same?" At this point they're not listening anymore though...

At least they listen to you. When I tried to tell my friends that Pep Guardiola failed a drugs test, I was starting to fear for my well-being.

By the way, I don't think it's been mentioned yet but the TV show where this happened, Punto Pelota, is mostly (99% of the time) about football. They only started talking about cycling because a steak was mentioned and someone made a joke about Contador, which Pereiro didn't like. He wasn't there to talk about cycling but about football.

I say this because it puts the whole deflecting thing into context.

The video I see they are already arguing. Do you have a link for what happens before?

 

[hrotha]

The video I see they are already arguing. Do you have a link for what happens before?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSEGxYUiRTM
Here you are.

 

[thehog]

I think the issue is one of logistics. Cyclists need to transport their drugs across Europe to races and training bases. The teams also are scattered across Europe which leads to greater chance of getting busted by regular authorities. Footballer's can transfuse at home on a Sunday then play a game on Tuesday and gain the benefit. In addition the entire team lives in one town so much easier to control the drug distribution. My only question is the World Cup over 21 days. That would need an element of drug transportation but there are plenty of rest days to escape.I think the issue is one of logistics. Cyclists need to transport their drugs across Europe to races and training bases. The teams also are scattered across Europe which leads to greater chance of getting busted by regular authorities. Footballer's can transfuse at home on a Sunday then play a game on Tuesday and gain the benefit. In addition the entire team lives in one town so much easier to control the drug distribution. My only question is the World Cup over 21 days. That would need an element of drug transportation but there are plenty of rest days to escape.

 

[The Hitch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSEGxYUiRTM
Here you are.

Jesus christ 9 parts 15 minutes each. They were bound to talk about doping eventually.

And they seem to be talking about Messi the whole thing, And I thought I was obsessed about cycling

Edit: Big Mig is in an advert in part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOJou76tjJA&feature=related

Perreiro talks a bit.

Still going strong I saw this ad in April.

Its a shame that things had to kick of for us to hear about this. I wish everytime a cyclist made an appearance like this (talking about pereiro not indurain ) I could find out about it.

And in part 3 they catch Guardiola reading a sex book. It has a picture of a woman with an umbrella, ummm, and 1 of the guys says " I cant quite intepret what the woman is doing" and another guy says " of course you can't intepret it"

 

[The Hitch]

Btw, dont know if this has been posted but the antagonist of this video has been involved in a controversy about accusations of doping in futbol before.

http://www.periodistadigital.com/pe...eriodismo-deportivo-dopaje-abidal-tumor.shtml

 

[Parrulo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSEGxYUiRTM
Here you are.

at 5:50 of this video is the only thing you need to hear the realized that those guys know **** about cycling. the ******* with the moustache says "contador tested positive last year and its no causality that he couldn't win the tour this year and some other guy did" talk about being a clueless jackass

also god damn if i could i would send pereiro himself an email or something congratulating him for what he did on that show

 

[GreasyMonkey]

I know quite a some young track and field runners that had almost perfect teeth until they became 23-29. That is here in the USA as my coach was also coach of a top high school team in Los Angeles, and we have met this athletes since their teens.

Add in the Santa Monica Athletics Club (SMAC) members from the 1980's, which had a large majority of the US Track & Field team as members, where the incidence of adult-onset orthodontics was something like 12 times the national average, and adult-onset acne being approx 8 times the national average - both significant indicators of anabolic steroid abuse.

 

[Berzin]

Add in the Santa Monica Athletics Club (SMAC) members from the 1980's, which had a large majority of the US Track & Field team as members, where the incidence of adult-onset orthodontics was something like 12 times the national average, and adult-onset acne being approx 8 times the national average - both significant indicators of anabolic steroid abuse.

I'm still not understanding this. If one's jaw becomes bigger through HgH use, why the need for braces?

Do braces reign in this type of growth? I've never heard of this.

 

[Andynonomous]

I'm still not understanding this. If one's jaw becomes bigger through HgH use, why the need for braces?

Do braces reign in this type of growth? I've never heard of this.

I am no expert, but I would guess, if the jaw gets bigger (and since the teeth don't grow), you would get an expanding space between the teeth. They then use braces to close up the gaps ?

 

[GreasyMonkey]

I'm still not understanding this. If one's jaw becomes bigger through HgH use, why the need for braces?

Do braces reign in this type of growth? I've never heard of this.

Not HgH at this time, it was anabolics - the braces were for correcting the teeth spreading and deformation due to jaw enlargement, is my understanding.

 

[sniper]

at 5:50 of this video is the only thing you need to hear the realized that those guys know **** about cycling. the ******* with the moustache says "contador tested positive last year and its no causality that he couldn't win the tour this year and some other guy did" talk about being a clueless jackass

also god damn if i could i would send pereiro himself an email or something congratulating him for what he did on that show

Yes, great stuff by Pereiro regarding football.
However, his defense of AC is misplaced ("he only took some picograms of clenbuterol").

Actually the moustached buttmunk seems to be right when he says that it's no coincidence that AC didn't win this year. I don't think it was just his post-Giro exhaustion.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

at 5:50 of this video is the only thing you need to hear the realized that those guys know **** about cycling. the ******* with the moustache says "contador tested positive last year and its no causality that he couldn't win the tour this year and some other guy did" talk about being a clueless jackass

also god damn if i could i would send pereiro himself an email or something congratulating him for what he did on that show

You can tweet him @oscarpereiro...

 

[Cloxxki]

A great man confesses before he accuses.
It may be in the same sentence, but that's the order.

Anyone told Oscar yet?

 

[Albatros]

tell miguel delaney that its not extraordinary since its him who said its extraordinary.

I was "telling him".

 

[Albatros]

@ albatross
On the other hand cycling is a lot less competitive than other sports. Let's look at track everybody on the track has a reason to dope, because everybody has a chance to win the race in cycling it is not really needed for some domestiques. In soccer I want to be as big and fast as possible. There was an article in a Mexican news paper talking about the extinction of the creative midfielder, because soccer had become much more physical.

I agree that you don't only take doping to help you cope (I can even run 100 meters and that event is full of dopers). What I was trying to say is that if you want to be clean you have it much tougher in cycling because of the exertions of the sport.

 

[Albatros]

So you believe everybody is doping?

Moncoutié does not win his races by crushing the opposition. He goes in the breakaway and proves the strongest in that. Doping may help characters, but it is not a lightswitch, you press it and it makes you better. Moncoutié chooses the breaks he is part of well (where he is the strongest climber) and doses his efforts well (not doing too much work) so that he has enough strength left to complete. He also always rides on the back of the péloton because he is not interested in the GC; this means he loses time in any splits and is no threat to any of the established GC men, so nobody chases him down when he attacks. It's a good little niche, and one which is entirely plausible and possible without doping.

Also, because of the testing, doping is less in cycling than it used to be. By that I don't necessarily mean fewer people are doing it - but I mean the same number of people are doing LESS of it. The days of Bjarne Riis speed on Hautacam are gone. Riders are still doping, but they can't get away with that kind of quantity of it anymore. Hence the difference between the clean riders and the dirty riders is more easily bridged by a good talent.

David Moncoutié is a rider that most people are willing to accept is clean. We have testimonies from his own team management, from dopers who were caught, and from other riders in the péloton. We have his own character, attitude and behaviour. And we have his palmarès.

And yet, you, who has not heard of Moncoutié until today, feel you can judge that you know more about him than the people who've raced with him, trained with him, managed him. Obviously they must have something to hide, right? Except that Gaumont voluntarily told of all of his teammates doping. Except Tombak and Moncoutié.

I believe that everyone that wins is doping considering the tremendous improvement in performance doping provides. We are not talking here about a minor boost, but a radical improvement.

How a clean guy can beat riders who can train much harder and longer, who can recover faster and who gain considerable more power and stamina thanks to doping?

I have watched sports for more than 30 years and the athletic improvement is mindblowing. And I believe most of it is due to better doping.


the use of artificial means [to improve performance] has long been considered
wholly incompatible with the spirit of sport and has therefore been condemned.
Nevertheless, we all know that this rule is continually being broken, and that
sportive competitions are often more a matter of doping than of training. It is
highly regrettable that those who are in charge of supervising sport seem to lack
the energy for the campaign against this evil, and that a lax, and fateful, attitude
is spreading.”

Dr Otto Reiser in 1933

 

[GotDropped]

Why? This doesn't make him a hypocrite, since he isn't saying he or cycling in general are clean. The hypocrites are those who turn a blind eye on doping in other sports while making cheap jokes at cycling's expense, especially because they, as sports journalists, most likely know very well what's going on.

For me is does make him a hypocrite, ok, i agree with you that the others are bigger hypocrites and hats off the pereiro for "defending the dopers in cycling" agaists one eyed futbol journalists. But, his last phrase of the video ruins it for him "have i ever tested positive? No". He is claiming that he has never been caught for doping while pointing his finger at other. Please pereiro, tell the truth, he has been protected by the same government as the futbol players.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I believe that everyone that wins is doping considering the tremendous improvement in performance doping provides. We are not talking here about a minor boost, but a radical improvement.

How a clean guy can beat riders who can train much harder and longer, who can recover faster and who gain considerable more power and stamina thanks to doping?

I have watched sports for more than 30 years and the athletic improvement is mindblowing. And I believe most of it is due to better doping.


the use of artificial means [to improve performance] has long been considered
wholly incompatible with the spirit of sport and has therefore been condemned.
Nevertheless, we all know that this rule is continually being broken, and that
sportive competitions are often more a matter of doping than of training. It is
highly regrettable that those who are in charge of supervising sport seem to lack
the energy for the campaign against this evil, and that a lax, and fateful, attitude
is spreading.”

Dr Otto Reiser in 1933

Even if they only win by deliberately dropping time so that nobody cares to catch them?

Moncoutié wins his stages not by outclimbing the likes of Evans, Valverde, Sánchez, Nibali and Rodríguez, but by outclimbing the likes of Verdugo, Serafín Martínez, Olivier Kaisen and Dominik Roels.

Does he really need to be doping to do that?

The idea that to beat somebody who is doping, you have to be doping, makes an assumption that I consider is unreasonable, which is that the talent levels are equal. Alessandro Petacchi has been done for doping, does that mean that everybody who finishes above him must be doping? Or is it that he's a sprinter, and is not built for climbing, so the climbers can beat him on a mountain stage clean?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

For me is does make him a hypocrite, ok, i agree with you that the others are bigger hypocrites and hats off the pereiro for "defending the dopers in cycling" agaists one eyed futbol journalists. But, his last phrase of the video ruins it for him "have i ever tested positive? No". He is claiming that he has never been caught for doping while pointing his finger at other. Please pereiro, tell the truth, he has been protected by the same government as the futbol players.

So you want him to go out there and say "hey, I doped!" What kind of idiot do you think he is?

The idiot with the moustache comments about how few people Pereiro can name who've tested positive in football, and Pereiro points out the lack of testing. Saying that he himself has not tested positive is not being hypocritical, and in fact in including himself in the statement of people in cycling who've been stupid by saying "somos tontos" he is alluding to the possibility that he is among those who have escaped the net.

The guys he's addressing lionise people in football who have tested positive and consider it a clean sport (and the multitudes who have doped who haven't tested positive) but deride cyclists who haven't tested positive and consider it a dirty sport (whether they have doped or not).

Whether or not Pereiro openly states "I doped" has no bearing on his argument because whether or not Pereiro himself doped is irrelevant to it. It is about the sports in comparison to one another, not Óscar Pereiro in comparison to Pep Guardiola or Carlos Gurpegui.

 

[Albatros]

yes, definitely.

Of course you were, Le simpleton.

 

[Albatros]

Even if they only win by deliberately dropping time so that nobody cares to catch them?

Moncoutié wins his stages not by outclimbing the likes of Evans, Valverde, Sánchez, Nibali and Rodríguez, but by outclimbing the likes of Verdugo, Serafín Martínez, Olivier Kaisen and Dominik Roels.

Does he really need to be doping to do that?

The idea that to beat somebody who is doping, you have to be doping, makes an assumption that I consider is unreasonable, which is that the talent levels are equal. Alessandro Petacchi has been done for doping, does that mean that everybody who finishes above him must be doping? Or is it that he's a sprinter, and is not built for climbing, so the climbers can beat him on a mountain stage clean?

But that stage win takes place after ten days riding when you have to keep up with the peloton, and he certainly was keeping up. He was only 6 minutes behind the leader.

And I guess to beat a doper sprinter in a climb you won't need to dope, but maybe you do to beat other not so good climbers.

 

[GotDropped]

So you want him to go out there and say "hey, I doped!" What kind of idiot do you think he is?

The idiot with the moustache comments about how few people Pereiro can name who've tested positive in football, and Pereiro points out the lack of testing. Saying that he himself has not tested positive is not being hypocritical, and in fact in including himself in the statement of people in cycling who've been stupid by saying "somos tontos" he is alluding to the possibility that he is among those who have escaped the net.

The guys he's addressing lionise people in football who have tested positive and consider it a clean sport (and the multitudes who have doped who haven't tested positive) but deride cyclists who haven't tested positive and consider it a dirty sport (whether they have doped or not).

Whether or not Pereiro openly states "I doped" has no bearing on his argument because whether or not Pereiro himself doped is irrelevant to it. It is about the sports in comparison to one another, not Óscar Pereiro in comparison to Pep Guardiola or Carlos Gurpegui.

I agree with everything you sayand you are right. But we have a diferencein opinion regarding reather pereiro is a hypocrite or not. Ibeleive that he is, and he is angry because dopers in other sports get away with it and some cyclists dont. He did. And he knows it. If he was clean, his opinions on dopers in cycling would be very different. Lets remember, the spanish cyclist wete onlycaught becausr the other countries caught them. Had the spanish government done a dni test on all blood bags and all athletes many football players would havebeen caught, and peteiro also.

(Please excuae the errorsas i am writing feom amobile device)

 

[hrotha]

I agree with everything you sayand you are right. But we have a diferencein opinion regarding reather pereiro is a hypocrite or not. Ibeleive that he is, and he is angry because dopers in other sports get away with it and some cyclists dont. He did. And he knows it. If he was clean, his opinions on dopers in cycling would be very different. Lets remember, the spanish cyclist wete onlycaught becausr the other countries caught them. Had the spanish government done a dni test on all blood bags and all athletes many football players would havebeen caught, and peteiro also.

(Please excuae the errorsas i am writing feom amobile device)

A bit of nitpicking: as far as I know there's no evidence linking Pereiro to Fuentes. All things point to his being a Losa client.

 

[GotDropped]

A bit of nitpicking: as far as I know there's no evidence linking Pereiro to Fuentes. All things point to his being a Losa client.

Whatever, but your can see clearly the point i am making, had pereiro been fom any other country, he wouldn't be tdf champion