This is the ASO's race. The UCI might run things up front, but if ASO wants something they get it. Jury might be selected by UCI but if ASO want Sagan back in the race i reckon he will be back in.
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AICA ribonucleotide said:jmdirt said:That's funny, an incomplete video with inaccurate captions is where you are leaving it.Gorecki said:
At the point that your video starts, PS has already moved over. Look at seconds 3 and 4, MC already has the line (he's not trying to squeeze as some have said), and PS comes over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0MgSNtiCI
Indeed we can debate it either way but lets not base things off an edited video with "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" annotations
From what I can see its Sagan moving across Cavendish's line, Cavendish leans in to him as he falls, Sagan feels a touch and throws an elbow.
The way I see It doesn't matter if the elbow caused the fall. There isn't a point were it's now okay for Sagan to throw an elbow.
Up until the elbow it's just a racing incident.
With the elbow we are into the Mark Renshaw headbutting area.
Renshaw got kicked off the race for that. Sagan is borderline.
I personally have lost a bet on Sagan getting the Green Jersey.
Benotti69 said:This is the ASO's race. The UCI might run things up front, but if ASO wants something they get it. Jury might be selected by UCI but if ASO want Sagan back in the race i reckon he will be back in.
Walkman said:Well, care to comment on these pictures?
From above:
http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg
From the front:
http://i.imgur.com/jiILcY0.jpg
The first picture show Cav has a good margin to the fence and seeing as he was faster at the moment, he is clearly grabbing the wheel of Demare which the second picture clearly shows. And again, a clear margin to the fence.
Sagan clearly pushes infront of Cav as he was passing him, causing the crash.
Did Cofidis make a reclamation? No. Case closed .Galic Ho said:Without a doubt. Nacer did well to avoid crashing. And since the only wrong thing Sagan did was to slowly change his line to the right, it speaks volumes that Démare's huge and more radical swung can be ignored by the race jury. I guess the race jury had to come up with the obviously flawed 'elbow reason' in order to be able to let Démare go free
This.
Better remember no chicken wings in the future. No chicken wings = no disqualification = totally legit.
rick james said:https://u.nya.is/jdkpym.mp4
caused the first crash
Tonton said:Had Nacer hit the ground, Nono would have been sanctioned. No doubt. And that's a big difference between the two. And it used to be that way. as long as no one gets hurt, it's all fine. You play with fire, as long as no one gets hurt, it's OK. It was a game of chicken between Sagan and Cavendish, they both lost. Best rider in the World vs. best TdF sprinter ever, that's a lot of ego...no one was going to give in. That's why the "Demare did something worse" statement is non-sense. No one was hurt.
tobydawq said:Tonton said:Had Nacer hit the ground, Nono would have been sanctioned. No doubt. And that's a big difference between the two. And it used to be that way. as long as no one gets hurt, it's all fine. You play with fire, as long as no one gets hurt, it's OK. It was a game of chicken between Sagan and Cavendish, they both lost. Best rider in the World vs. best TdF sprinter ever, that's a lot of ego...no one was going to give in. That's why the "Demare did something worse" statement is non-sense. No one was hurt.
That logic is really, really flawed. And you know that is not how judgments are made. Bouhanni was declassified twice last year (Paris-Nice and Vattenfall) without anybody being hurt. Judgments really need to be based on an action, not its consequences (and they usually are).
Mod hat on:Son of Amsterhammer said:tobydawq said:Tonton said:Had Nacer hit the ground, Nono would have been sanctioned. No doubt. And that's a big difference between the two. And it used to be that way. as long as no one gets hurt, it's all fine. You play with fire, as long as no one gets hurt, it's OK. It was a game of chicken between Sagan and Cavendish, they both lost. Best rider in the World vs. best TdF sprinter ever, that's a lot of ego...no one was going to give in. That's why the "Demare did something worse" statement is non-sense. No one was hurt.
That logic is really, really flawed. And you know that is not how judgments are made. Bouhanni was declassified twice last year (Paris-Nice and Vattenfall) without anybody being hurt. Judgments really need to be based on an action, not its consequences (and they usually are).
Right. Your actions and punishment really shouldn't be dependent on how good a bike handler/decision maker the rider you're cutting off is.
Demare is lucky because Nacer is sweet guy.Tonton said:Did Cofidis make a reclamation? No. Case closed .Galic Ho said:Without a doubt. Nacer did well to avoid crashing. And since the only wrong thing Sagan did was to slowly change his line to the right, it speaks volumes that Démare's huge and more radical swung can be ignored by the race jury. I guess the race jury had to come up with the obviously flawed 'elbow reason' in order to be able to let Démare go free
This.
Better remember no chicken wings in the future. No chicken wings = no disqualification = totally legit.
There's another way to look at it: Nacer has been treated unfairly. And when he was DQed, where was the outcry? Deafening silence...tobydawq said:Tonton said:Had Nacer hit the ground, Nono would have been sanctioned. No doubt. And that's a big difference between the two. And it used to be that way. as long as no one gets hurt, it's all fine. You play with fire, as long as no one gets hurt, it's OK. It was a game of chicken between Sagan and Cavendish, they both lost. Best rider in the World vs. best TdF sprinter ever, that's a lot of ego...no one was going to give in. That's why the "Demare did something worse" statement is non-sense. No one was hurt.
That logic is really, really flawed. And you know that is not how judgments are made. Bouhanni was declassified twice last year (Paris-Nice and Vattenfall) without anybody being hurt. Judgments really need to be based on an action, not its consequences (and they usually are).
No...because he didn't fall..sweet and sprinters don't go together. If you believe otherwise, you have never been in a sprint. I have. And I wasn't good, never won. Because I was a little "sweet". The ones who win sprints, they are axe murderers. Bouhanni and Demare hate each other. Credit to Nacer: he knows that Demare won, he would have made the same move. He's not "sweet", but he's fair-play. Has not always been, but he was today. I hope that he wins one.KGB said:Demare is lucky because Nacer is sweet guy.
Galic Ho said:Walkman said:Well, care to comment on these pictures?
From above:
http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg
From the front:
http://i.imgur.com/jiILcY0.jpg
The first picture show Cav has a good margin to the fence and seeing as he was faster at the moment, he is clearly grabbing the wheel of Demare which the second picture clearly shows. And again, a clear margin to the fence.
Sagan clearly pushes infront of Cav as he was passing him, causing the crash.
Of course I will comment.
Get a link that works please. Then you'll get a proper response.
Lots of these missing links are being posted. Lots of them.
Aren't their rules on this stuff? It's only a few hours after the stage...the links didn't vanish overnight did they!?!?
What is with people using this incomplete video?! Get a video that starts about 10 seconds earlier, then you might understand...cineteq said:Is it still time for ASO to reinstate Sagan for stage 5?
- Cavendish pushed Sagan with his head to his left, while having no room to pass
- Inertia caused Cavendish to bounce and crash against the barrier
- Sagan lifted his right elbow in order to get his balance back as he was looking to follow Demare's wheel
- This was happening at 60km/h
Kopuliak said:
jmdirt said:What is with people using this incomplete video?! Get a video that starts about 10 seconds earlier, then you might understand...
I agree. Kind of ridiculous, and dishonest, to keep posting the highly edited video.jmdirt said:What is with people using this incomplete video?! Get a video that starts about 10 seconds earlier, then you might understand...cineteq said:Is it still time for ASO to reinstate Sagan for stage 5?
- Cavendish pushed Sagan with his head to his left, while having no room to pass
- Inertia caused Cavendish to bounce and crash against the barrier
- Sagan lifted his right elbow in order to get his balance back as he was looking to follow Demare's wheel
- This was happening at 60km/h
Kopuliak said:
Are you sure that AG isn't talking about a different situation? It doesn't matter if MC has caused 1,000 crashes before today, he was there and PS moved him off his line. Of course he leaned in once PS moved him because he had nowhere to go. Based on your reply, you aren't interested in what really happened so don't worry about looking for a video that shows the entire sprint.cineteq said:All you need to do is ask a sprinter...how about Greipel? Cavendish is a repeat offender, then you might understandjmdirt said:What is with people using this incomplete video?! Get a video that starts about 10 seconds earlier, then you might understand...
Brullnux said:Look on the brightside.
Sagan was trending at #1 or #2 for a few hours. It's still #10 in the UK. That's pretty good for cycling. It shows that it's getting a much bigger audience than in the past and becoming more mainstream.
Walkman said:Galic Ho said:Walkman said:Well, care to comment on these pictures?
From above:
http://i.imgur.com/9QTHNdI.jpg
From the front:
http://i.imgur.com/jiILcY0.jpg
The first picture show Cav has a good margin to the fence and seeing as he was faster at the moment, he is clearly grabbing the wheel of Demare which the second picture clearly shows. And again, a clear margin to the fence.
Sagan clearly pushes infront of Cav as he was passing him, causing the crash.
Of course I will comment.
Get a link that works please. Then you'll get a proper response.
Lots of these missing links are being posted. Lots of them.
Aren't their rules on this stuff? It's only a few hours after the stage...the links didn't vanish overnight did they!?!?
The post was not directed at you, obviously. But, sure if you want to discuss, that's great.
Both links works fine for me, does neither work for you?
Again, agree or disagree with the DQ ... but there was nobody on Sagan's left that caused him tooffbyone said:I thought cavendish's line was pretty consistent compared to the rest of them. "Rest of them" meaning not just sagan. The entire group deviated from their line. If you look at the footage and don't get caught up in just Sagan/Cav notice that all the riders move across the road pushing the group further against the rail and that likely contributed to sagan closing out Cav and narrowing what was originally a large gap. There was a heck of lot of movement from the front 5 riders and I feel like it is a domino affect.
The contact and elbow shot was too short for me to kick someone out of the race for it. It would be different if it was going on for a while, but it was just a moment and his hands never left the bars. Bad call kicking him out of the race. In general the entire bunch in that sprint was all over a fairly straight road. Stuff happens. Real shame for both of them.
jmdirt said:Are you sure that AG isn't talking about a different situation? It doesn't matter if MC has caused 1,000 crashes before today, he was there and PS moved him off his line. Of course he leaned in once PS moved him because he had nowhere to go. Based on your reply, you aren't interested in what really happened so don't worry about looking for a video that shows the entire sprint.cineteq said:All you need to do is ask a sprinter...how about Greipel? Cavendish is a repeat offender, then you might understandjmdirt said:What is with people using this incomplete video?! Get a video that starts about 10 seconds earlier, then you might understand...
Its actually easy to ignore MC because he stayed on nearly the same line until PS pushed him off (actually, Cav was moving slightly away from PS until he ran out of road). Expulsion is too much, relegation was OK (I'm hoping that the UCI reconsiders their decision overnight).cineteq said:Actually, I did watch the video again. It reinforces what i said before. I invite you to watch it and ignore Cav for a moment and focus on what Sagan was doing to catch Demare. Even relegation would've been ridiculousjmdirt said:Are you sure that AG isn't talking about a different situation? It doesn't matter if MC has caused 1,000 crashes before today, he was there and PS moved him off his line. Of course he leaned in once PS moved him because he had nowhere to go. Based on your reply, you aren't interested in what really happened so don't worry about looking for a video that shows the entire sprint.cineteq said:All you need to do is ask a sprinter...how about Greipel? Cavendish is a repeat offender, then you might understandjmdirt said:What is with people using this incomplete video?! Get a video that starts about 10 seconds earlier, then you might understand...