So far her return to cross has been just really unimpressive, so much so that you wonder why she would even bother. With Persico for instance, you think, okay, this is really quite good and she may even win a race. PFP is not going to get on the podium anytime soon.
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Do the top women get paid to participate (in the Superprestige, etc)? If so that would b a reason to go even if form is off due to injuries? Or just plain old racing to get back in form?
Yep. One can compare her XC season where she maybe wasn't on it and came around for the worlds, however even if that happens I think it would still only maybe amount to a top 5 at the very least. Evie Richards is on the start list for Gullegem and recently said she was doing 3 or 4 races early January, so I wonder if Ferrand Prevot and Richards will race together and if so, how they match up.
I've said earlier in this thread, that if it was anybody else, you'd completely write them off. But, 2 weeks before Les Gets she finished 2m30 down on Lecomte.....
As for Evie, I've got no idea how she'll go; she'll start towards the back as she has so few points from the last 2 seasons - and it's basically prep for the early season MTB races.
Maybe the best rivalry in the history of elite sports. Name another one where you have two absolutely dominant athletes in their sport(s) that have competed against each other since they were barely teenagers. Thought the female commentator on GCN made a good point today about how close they rode each others wheel. It's also cool that are clearly different people and aren't interested in being friends. That said, when they are both broken down old men, they ought to hit the pubs together and talk about the glory days.
Pidcock start question. Seems like he often has poor starts--he sure did today. I would think his MTB experience would serve him pretty well here bc of the similar starts. Any theories?
Today in Heusden-Zolder: the 250th duel between Wout van Aert and Mathieu van der Poel
Jonas Creteur
After a fantastic cross in Gavere, Wout van Aert and Mathieu van der Poel will cross swords on Tuesday in Heusden-Zolder for the 250th time in their field and road careers. A sporting rivalry for eternity that we have summarized in 10 striking figures.
182
On Tuesday, in the Superprestigecross of Heusden-Zolder, Wout van Aert and Mathieu van der Poel will be at the start of a cyclocross together for the umpteenth time: after 51 times in the youth categories (from the newcomers) for the 131st time at the elite. (Not counting their three joint participations in the criterium cross in Waregem).
68
WvA and MvdP signed the starting sheet in so many road races, from the youth to the latest World Cup in Wollongong (UCI races and competitions on the national calendar included, excluding joint participations and criteria).
Together with their duels in cyclocross, you will thus arrive at 250 races, including Tuesday's cross in Heusden-Zolder.
13
So many years and 113 days ago, on September 6, 2009, the very first duel took place between Van Aert and Van der Poel. In the novice cross in Essen-Horendonk, the Dutchman won ahead of Daan Hoyberghs and Quentin Jauregui. Van Aert finished sixth.
2014
Only in this year, on June 15, did the then 19-year-old Van Aert and Van der Poel start a road race together for the first time: the Tour of Limburg. Coincidence or not: the Dutchman then achieved his very first professional victory on the road, in the sprint. Van Aert was 46th.
114
Mathieu van der Poel won so many of their mutual duels in the field (181 after Gavere), including five world titles (youth + elite). Van Aert was the best 45 times (46 including Zolder), good for four world titles. Only 22 times another crosser triumphed.
On the road, the balance is more balanced: 11 victories for the Dutchman and 10 for Van Aert, 47 won by another rider.
34
It has been so many races since the Koppenbergcross on November 1, 2018, that a cyclocross rider (Toon Aerts) could beat Van Aert and Van der Poel in a cyclocross race in which both started. In 23 of those crosses, the Kempenaar and the Dutchman finished first or second.
128
The number of times both finished on the podium in 249 races so far, or more than 51 percent. Although mainly in the field (120 joint top three places).
92
That's how many times Van Aert and Van der Poel finished first or second (in varying order) on those 128 podium places. Or in no less than 36.8 percent of their total number of duels (249) with the youth and the professionals so far. The first time was in the junior cross in Hamme-Zogge, on November 13, 2011, when the Dutchman won.
3
Hardly that many times they finished first or second on the road (excluding criteria): in the Bruges Cycling Classic 2017, in the Tour of Flanders 2020 (with the famous sprint in Oudenaarde) and in the third stage of Tirreno-Adriatico 2021 (also in an uphill sprint).
3
Only so many stage races have Van der Poel and Van Aert finished together: the Belgium Tour and the Tour of Liège in 2015, plus Tirreno-Adriatico in 2021. In the two Tour de France (2021/2022) in which both started, Van der Poel every time, one of which is planned.
Errr…. Stone Cold Steve Austin vs Vince McMahon? Their rivalry basically saved the WWE!
Many MTB starts are quickly followed by a long drag uphill which suit him.
In CX, I’ve always thought he’s not aggressive enough and gets ‘bullied’ a bit too easily. Other diminutive riders: Iserbyt (when on form) is more like a jack russell and not shy at snarling at others to get position and Lars is a better sprinter and regularly gets the hole shot. Tom is going as fast as he can but gets muscled out of the corners in the first lap. Conversely, watch Mathiue and Wout in the first few corners yesterday and how quickly they teleport to the front. Pure power and maybe a little bit of respectful concession from the competition?
When PFP became world champion she beat Sanne Cant and a Marianne Vos who had just returned from injury. I think the current level in women's cross is just way higher. I'm not saying PFP is at her best right now but she needs to be to even come remotely close to the top riders.
Of course you never know how things pan out, Van Empel is out and we don't know if and how she will return, Vos doesn't really seem to have it either, Brand is not at her very best, Alvarado is a bit up and down, but pretty much all of them will have to underperform for PFP to make the top-5 at the Worlds, let alone make the podium.
A question I've been wanting to make for days but I keep forgetting.
As I didn't follow the women's races back there, how do Thalita de Jong peak years compare to the current riders. How would she fare if raced at her peak with this generation?
As I didn't follow the women's races back there, how do Thalita de Jong peak years compare to the current riders. How would she fare if raced at her peak with this generation?
Nice summary. It would be interesting to see the stats laid out over the years. I am sure you all remember MVDP taking his first elite world championship in 2015. Then Van Aert won the next three. MVDP came back in Denmark Bogense in 2019 and then won the next two (Dubendorf and Oostende).
I would find it very interesting to see the “lead up” before each of those wins. For example I seem to recall that MVDP had a very strong CX season 2018 prior to Valkenburg but on the race day Van Aert was superb and won. In 2019 I am pretty sure MVDP won most of the races and then dominated in Bogense.
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I think she'd do quite well actually, she was a Lucinda Brand type of crosser, pure power. In that Worlds she won she was way back and then just time trialed her way past everyone. Way stronger than the rest. She's had a few years of physical and mental problems but she's back as a road rider, maybe she'll return as a crosser as well.
This was what I was referring to, but I couldn't remember who posted it. While I agree Ferrand Prevot could improve, I feel it currently still wouldn't be enough for a world title this season. I think it would have to be a situation like The Youngest mentions where everyone who has been good at some point this season will have a bad day for PFP to do really well. And even if those mentioned 'don't turn up' then there is still riders such as van Alphen, van der Heijden, Bakker, etc. who could potentially perform ahead of her.
Yeah, the level now has never been higher. PFP won a CX World title, but has never won a CX World Cup, 3rd is her best finish. That result, is almost an outlier, as her other CX Worlds aren't good. Reminds me of Jordan Sarrou....... won a World title, but no World Cup wins.
I doubt PFP will reach the required level - the u23s just look way too good, but i think yesterday was her best yet and she looked pretty strong coming down the home straight despite zero footage of her throughout the race.
Persico looks in really good form but is making mistakes everywhere- yeaterday it was really noticeable. Alvarado on the other hand looked every bit a pure cross rider. Awesome to watch.
I saw a post from Jonas Creteur before Christmas, regarding riders who've won CX & MTB World Cups, he actually missed a few out.
Thomas Frischknecht
Luca Bramati
Katarina Nash
Eva Lechner
Mathieu Van der Poel
Evie Richards
Thomas Pidcock
And only two have CX, XCC & XCO wins......
Thomas Frischknecht
Luca Bramati
Katarina Nash
Eva Lechner
Mathieu Van der Poel
Evie Richards
Thomas Pidcock
And only two have CX, XCC & XCO wins......
I suspect that part of the reason Ineos signed PFP is because she thought she could be competitive in CX as well as XC and road if she chooses, sort of a female counterpoint to Pidcock, who shows the Ineos colors year round on 3 kinds of terrain. I'm sorry she isn't more competitive right now.
There are also some personal connections, she knows Dylan van Baarle quite well (
) and other Ineos riders and personnel who live in Monaco. That must have played a role in the initial contact between her and the team.Which u23s will be racing the elite World Championship race? Only Fem confirmed and we don't know what level she will be after her Vale de Sole crash and injuries.
Italian CX action from Turino; doesn't look the most inspiring course....
van Anrooij is a definite no at the moment, and Pieterse was unsure the last time I heard., but if she kept winning world cups she'd think about van Empel is currently the only definite, as well as obviously Vas who moved up last year maybe too early.
Van Empel was supposed to start in Boom on Sunday, but from her Instagram she's still undergoing some kind of magnetic therapy on her knee so I guess that's not going to happen. And then the rest of her season becomes quite problematic as well.
Van Anrooij wasn't going to ride the Worlds with the elites, but if she goes on like this she might end up being the favourite, which could swing her decision. Same goes for Pieterse of course.
My bad - got carried away watching them crush the Elite riders week after week!
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