Teams & Riders Tadej Pogačar discussion thread

[KZD]

Regarding this discussion about people here allegedly overrating Pogačar by calling him the GOAT or a similar thing, I do think that there are a few members that could be getting a bit carried away or are using the term GOAT to refer to potential rather than actual achievements however at least some of this is in response to the unfair criticism that Pogačar has been subject to, especially last season.

We are talking about the best rider of this decade, winner of two TDF's and five monuments yet many people, fortunately not so many in this forum, just see Pogačar as the rider that 'lost' the last two TDF's. For instance, when was the last time a rider won a hilly monument and a cobbled one in the same season like Pogačar did last year? Then you add a second place at the Tour and other important wins like P-N, Amstel, Flèche and you get an incredible season and yet many saw it as a failure. In a way, I think the fact that Pogačar is so good and versatile is what makes some people underestimated him. Because when a rider fights for the win at so many top races, he will have to inevitably lose some of those and some seem to remember those defeats more than the wins, even though he still wins more top races than any other rider.

 

[scribers]

If Pogacar can somehow arrest his defeats to Vingegaard at the TdF he can start to be considered the GOAT (assuming Vingegaard gets back to his pre crash level). Not before. Of course Eddy Merckx is indisputably the GOAT - by a wide margin.

Merckx lost races to lots of various riders. He raced a lot. Won a lot. And lost quite a lot.

 

[Cookster15]

Merckx lost races to lots of various riders. He raced a lot. Won a lot. And lost quite a lot.

Of course Merckx lost races. That doesn't mean he isn't the GOAT by a very wide margin.

 

[Red Rick]

Imagine calling someone who rode against semi pros and pub riders 50 years ago GOAT. There were like 4 countries where they had bicycles

 

[scribers]

Merckx raced against farmers and postmen who worked in the morning and raced in the afternoon. It has been famously said here.

 

[Peyroteo94]

@Red Rick is right. Cycling is a different sport since the 90's (when specialisation started). Pogacar is the best rider since then and he is on his way to have the best palmares too and this season will be crucial in establish Pogi as an undisputed GOAT since the 90's.
Anybody thinks Joe Davis is the GOAT of snooker or Bill Russell/Wilt Chamberlain is the GOAT of NBA? I don't think so...

 

[vwpe]

Regarding this discussion about people here allegedly overrating Pogačar by calling him the GOAT or a similar thing, I do think that there are a few members that could be getting a bit carried away or are using the term GOAT to refer to potential rather than actual achievements however at least some of this is in response to the unfair criticism that Pogačar has been subject to, especially last season.

We are talking about the best rider of this decade, winner of two TDF's and five monuments yet many people, fortunately not so many in this forum, just see Pogačar as the rider that 'lost' the last two TDF's. For instance, when was the last time a rider won a hilly monument and a cobbled one in the same season like Pogačar did last year? Then you add a second place at the Tour and other important wins like P-N, Amstel, Flèche and you get an incredible season and yet many saw it as a failure. In a way, I think the fact that Pogačar is so good and versatile is what makes some people underestimated him. Because when a rider fights for the win at so many top races, he will have to inevitably lose some of those and some seem to remember those defeats more than the wins, even though he still wins more top races than any other rider.

I dont think noone in the real world criticis Pogacar about last year, on the contrary actually. Like you said he won everything up untill he hurt himself bad. If anything it show how heroic and strong he was by ridding that strong in less than ideal situations.

If I can add from within cycling from every rider to literally every SD Pogacar is not only considered the best rider of his generation by alot hes also on the cusp already by age 25 is in the upper echelon of cycling greats wouldnt say hes above Merxcs but hes already the only rider latest 30 years who one can even compare him too. Now if someone dont like that im afraid that doesnt change anything.

Personally I think thats the most basic common conception we have in and around cycling today by now anyway.

 

[vwpe]

Now I just came on here before the race tomorrow.

After my ride with Mathieu 2 weeks before Flandern I had a certain feeling how things would go there and how and when it would happen.(check my post from then if you want, anyway) Here I dont expect much from MvdP as its not his terrain mainly. I think Pogacar will win quite comfortably.

Im so lucky I will be able to watch the race tomorrow from in the race in a SD car as a guest, hoping for a wet edition without many crashes. May the best man win

 

[Sciatic]

Now I just came on here before the race tomorrow.

After my ride with Mathieu 2 weeks before Flandern I had a certain feeling how things would go there and how and when it would happen.(check my post from then if you want, anyway) Here I dont expect much from MvdP as its not his terrain mainly. I think Pogacar will win quite comfortably.

Im so lucky I will be able to watch the race tomorrow from in the race in a SD car as a guest, hoping for a wet edition without many crashes. May the best man win

That’s great—hope you can give us a full report afterward!

 

[Blanco]

Disappointed to see so many Pogacar fans currently banned on here. Hopefully they will be freed in time for the LBL show.

To answer @Cookster15 i don’t think it matters if he never beats Vingegaard again in the Tour as he has already achieved things that very few riders all time have. Since 1955 the only 3 riders to have won 5 or more monuments and multiple grand tours are Merckx, Hinault and Pogacar with only the latter doing so since the specialist era began.

Yeah, with a small difference though. That multiple grand tours in Merckx and Hinault;s case means 11 and 10, and in Pogacar case multiple is 2.
Coppi won it, Bartali also, Binda, Girardengo... Bobet and Gimondi both won multiple GT's, 4 monuments + worlds which is basically the same, if not more.
He's not in the Merckx, Coppi, Hinault league yet, and the question is will he ever be?

 

[hayneplane]

Yeah, with a small difference though. That multiple grand tours in Merckx and Hinault;s case means 11 and 10, and in Pogacar case multiple is 2.
Coppi won it, Bartali also, Binda, Girardengo... Bobet and Gimondi both won multiple GT's, 4 monuments + worlds which is basically the same, if not more.
He's not in the Merckx, Coppi, Hinault league yet, and the question is will he ever be?

He is right on pace with Hinault who had 8 big wins (monuments x3, worlds x1, grand tours x4) before turning 26. Pogacar currently has 7 big wins (monuments x5, grand tours x2) with several big opportunities to get more big wins before turning 26 in September this year.

I will readily accept the addition of Gimondi to the list but, as legendary and never to be forgotten as Coppi and Bartali etc are, the champions of those eras were part of a very different sporting landscape.

 

[Blanco]

He is right on pace with Hinault who had 8 big wins (monuments x3, worlds x1, grand tours x4) before turning 26. Pogacar currently has 7 big wins (monuments x5, grand tours x2) with several big opportunities to get more big wins before turning 26 in September this year.

I will readily accept the addition of Gimondi to the list but, as legendary and never to be forgotten as Coppi and Bartali etc are, the champions of those eras were part of a very different sporting landscape.

Are you aware that cycling in Bartali/Coppi time was as popular as football in Italy?

 

[gregrowlerson]

Are you aware that cycling in Bartali/Coppi time was as popular as football in Italy?

I wasn't, but what about in the rest of the world?

 

[yaf]

With a head wind on the last part dont be surprised if boss goes halfway up the race

 

[Blanco]

I wasn't, but what about in the rest of the world?

France, Belgium the same.
Spain, Suisse, Netherlands pretty popular too.
It wasn't easy winning back then...

 

[gregrowlerson]

France, Belgium the same.
Spain, Suisse, Netherlands pretty popular too.
It wasn't easy winning back then...

And you can only beat who is on the start line. Still, rather different times that are difficult to compare. It's possible that WVA (or dare I suggest MVDP) may have been able to defeat Pogacar in a GT GC fifty plus years ago on poorer roads and with less supportive teams. Especially if stages finished more often in cities and towns then atop ski stations (which I think was the case).

Though recalling Pogacar riding 80 kms on his own at SB, that's most definitely merely a hypothetical.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Desnié is hard enough for his attack and there is no headwind, it is a crosswind

 

[yaf]

Another sola guy sjoerd bax gaining 1:30 on a 9 men breakaway on his own😳 bonkers!

 

[Didinho]

Another sola guy sjoerd bax gaining 1:30 on a 9 men breakaway on his own😳 bonkers!

The breakaway wants to go untill the end. Bax’s finish is almost there.

 

[yaf]

The breakaway wants to go untill the end. Bax’s finish is almost there.

What an ambitious breakaway that is 😂

 

[Peyroteo94]

Yeah buddy! Just keep going!! 6th monument

 

[Miha81]

Yeah buddy! Just keep going!! 6th monument

Looks like it is locked now.

 

[Didinho]

Another monument. Still young. What a rider.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Mounumental performance, as predicted 👏🏼

 

[Peyroteo94]

So easy! Someone know why he was celebrating to the sky? Zigart's mom?