Tadej Pogacar and Mauro Giannetti

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Apr 8, 2026
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No I didn't, have to do so then, that's quite interesting. As I said, I have no idea how credible the James Bond claim is, sadly the Podcast I was reacting to doesn't give sources.
I guess it's also important that the stuff isn't detectable, or hard to, not just about how the motor works in principle. Was that the case with the GCN students?
View: https://youtu.be/ZdDHtLP3oEs?is=huFI5gZQQypHkXAE


Not sure how detectable it is, but with lots of money and influence it could pass and I think they can make a lot better versions of this with professionals and the said proper funding.

Im still also wondering why pog spinned the wheel a few times in PR while changing to the neutral bike. Is there any logical explanation or could it ne connected to cheating? Don't remember anyone else doing that while changing bikes.
 
Feb 24, 2020
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A small motor of say 60 watts has a huge impact but mainly on steep climbs when climbing dominates the equation and not aerodynamics (speed). This is because the power needed is proportional to the vertical climb speed while being the third power of the horizontal speed. In practice this means that a rider who does a 400 watt effort will have a 4.5% horizontal speed increase and a 15% vertical speed increase vs an other rider doing 400 watt. As aero is more complicated (the other might have a lower Cx, drafting, head winds etc) it is much less effective to get a boost on the flat. In an acceleration of 1200 watt the effectiveness even decreases to a 1.5% speed differential.

So basically adding 60 watts during a steep climb, or about 1 watt/kg, is the reliable method to create a huge gap in a short time. A rider who has that 'skill' would try to gap the others on steep (and preferably long sections). For such a rider, considering he is already one of the best, it would be easier to win RVV (steep) than MSR (retavily long but not steep). LBL and Lombardy would suit him best and are basically a no brainer as he will win without crashing or technical issues. The effort of winning the Fleche would feel like driving to the bakery. In races such as the TdF he would gain minutes on the climbs. PR would be a lottery as he cannot use his motor as effectively. Mountain TTs would be reliable wins while flat TTs depend on aerodynamics and would be more difficult to win. It's also an other bike. The risk-benefit ratio may not be good enough to use a motor in those conditions.
 
Apr 17, 2026
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I have been following cycling for 30 years and I have never seen a cyclist react so differently from the rest of the peloton. The fact that he turns his wheel is also a clear sign of that.

Gianetti, Saronni, Matxin...it's Poison.
What irritates me even more are the theatrical performances of UAE, and especially Pogacar's rehearsed tricks to be liked, such as: "What are you going to do tomorrow on the Giro's rest day?... Drink a cappuccino with a pizza..." It made me sick! Or riding through France with a baguette; I hate him! Maybe I'm the only one, forgive me, guys.
 
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Apr 8, 2026
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I have been following cycling for 30 years and I have never seen a cyclist react so differently from the rest of the peloton. The fact that he turns his wheel is also a clear sign of that.

Gianetti, Saronni, Matxin...it's Poisen.
What irritates me even more are the theatrical performances of UAE, and especially Pogacar's rehearsed tricks to be liked, such as: "What are you going to do tomorrow on the Giro's rest day?... Drink a cappuccino with a pizza..." It made me sick! Or riding through France with a baguette; I hate him! Maybe I'm the only one, forgive me, guys.
You are certainly not the only one. I am more a fan of cycling than any specific rider, off course I like some riders more than others, but not in a fanboy level, which you can see is the case with many of these blind Pog "goat" believers. I have been sick of the whole Pog, UAE, Gianetti thing since that PDBF TT. It smelled rotten from the very beginning, but was still bearable before that 23/24 winter and hey he learned how to train at 25y bs gaining 10-15% more power in a few months. After that it has been totally unbearable and the level of cheating(allowed) is something I have ever witnessed in any sports.
 
Jul 15, 2023
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Any awareness of what has gone on and is going on tells you 'it's going on'. Cycling knows. The peloton knows. Only the wilfully blind choose not to see. I think UAE possibly went all in on motor doping following their shellacking in 2022 and 2023, although Pogacar's 2020 PDBF performance comes with a huge warning sign also given the utterly ludicrous level of performance on the day. UAE effectively bought over Colnago in May 2020. Since at least 2024 they haven't looked back but have instead powered a near unbeatable Pogacar to win practically every type of race imaginable right across the cycling calendar. It's more than a little silly looking for all involved and cycling in general, but equally as enraging that they're getting away with it. But I think a lot of people in cycling are equally fed up but can't seem to do anything about it for now.

View: https://youtu.be/1_qSIPkq-MM?si=VxLIYvXME_sPY7G7


That channel is ace btw, I don't know how they get away with it but they seem to be very well informed as well as very funny.
 
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Feb 27, 2023
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Er, historical evidence? For which there a very well documented natural reasons. Including weight and build. The upper body is actually quite important. Mass and muscle distribution count. I listed the last thirty odd years worth. At the very least would you not accept that he’s rather anomalous.

I hear you, I do. But your objections are not ultimately logical. We must analyse Pogacar's performances against his physical attributes, not merely because science tells us they are important, but because history confirms that they are. We have, in essence, the test results from a laboratory called world professional cycling over the last thirty years. This is when hyper specialised cyclists emerged and then came to dominate certain types of bike races. This was the inevitable result of professionalisation of the sport, particularly the influence of money married with sports science and an understanding of what works, what was optimal. Setting aside the rest of the cycling calendar for now, we can look at the Spring Classics and see a huge list of results, test results if you will. Real life events. And what do we see? What does reality tell us about the type of rider who wins and even competes in this type of race? See my previous post. The results are stark.

Now as to Pogacar's physicality. Upper body strength and weight are vital, particularly on the cobbled classics. I should not really have to do this here, and I may not be successful in explaining what I mean. But hopefully it will explain why I have serious problems with believing what Pogacar is doing. Apologies in advance for the length of the post. And apologies also if I sound as if I'm teaching you or anyone else how to suck eggs. I'm just trying to explain my thinking, shaped by nearly fifty years of watching the sport.

Upper‑body strength matters in the cobbled Classics because the rider must:
-stabilise the bike
-absorb violent impacts
-maintain power through chaos
-keep the front wheel planted
-resist lateral deflection
-act as the suspension

This is why the sport has always favoured 75–85 kg riders with powerful upper bodies — and why Pogačar’s success is so hard to reconcile with the last 30 years of physiology. Cobbles try to throw the bike off line. At 45–55 km/h on pavé, the bike is hit by thousands of micro‑impacts every minute. Each impact tries to:
-twist the handlebars
-bounce the front wheel sideways
-pitch the rider forward
-destabilise the hips

A rider with stronger arms, shoulders, and core can resist those forces and keep the bike tracking straight. A lighter climber gets deflected more easily.

The power conundrum:
You need upper‑body torque to keep power going. On smooth tarmac, power is almost entirely legs + hips (and I still have problems believing the power he generates given his size and bike positioning and movement but anyway). On cobbles, power becomes full‑body:
-shoulders stabilise the front end
-arms counteract lateral shocks
-core keeps the pelvis stable
-back muscles transmit force to the pedals

If the upper body collapses under vibration, the legs can’t deliver steady power. This is why real Classics riders look “thicker” through the trunk.
In effect, the rider becomes the suspension system. There’s no suspension on a road bike, obvs. On cobbles, the rider is the suspension. That means:
- arms absorb vertical hits
- shoulders and back dissipate vibration
- core prevents the torso from bouncing
- the whole upper body smooths the bike’s motion

A climber’s body is optimised for lightness and efficiency, not shock absorption. Pogacar is a lightweight climber. No one like him has ever done what he is doing, and for very good reasons. Even the world's best programme would struggle to make him competitive in this type of race.
A longer and well thought out post always trumps a one sentencer, so no worries there.

First of all, I notice you did not answer the question about your opinion regarding their respective power.

You seem to list quite a few things that a muscular upper body is supposed to help with. I neither have the time nor the willingness at the moment to do a proper modeling of the situation, but here are a few thoughts.
Let us assume that the upper body acts as a damper. This does not imply that the energy loss due to the bike moving in the direction orthogonal to the road (what you would call the y direction, or z direction) is reduced. There is the same force (and energy comes from force). Now there is less vibration for the body to experience, since the damper with a bigger constant will reduce the travel in the y direction, and less vibration is generally good, but it also means that more of the energy was absorbed by the body rather than it being waster for unnecessary upward movement. Therefore, it is unclear just how big of a difference being bigger on the cobbles makes.
You also make some guesses regarding arms and upper body collapsing under vibrations (I do not even understand what you mean by this exactly) and other things, but you did not quantify this at all, and I have little sense as to how much it really is but my personal belief is that this is not much of a factor.
I would also like to note that you are using history as a guide in your reasoning, and while this is generally a good idea, I think cycling has made a big leap in terms of performance in the last 6 years, so some of the generally accepted truths have to be reconsidered now. This is nothing new, the sport is always evolving and what was considered good training practice in the 70s, of course, changed in the 90s and so on...
Lastly, Pog is a great climber but he really does not have a typical climbers body like Lenny or like Jonas for that matter.
 
Nov 8, 2009
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Max Walscheid who finisehd 11th at PB talked in his Podcast Radio RTW about the race and about chasing Pogacar.

+90kg rider, aboslute Powerhouse was mentioning all time PRs in this race and an "unbelievable" Pogacar who was flying around and almost impossible to follow.

So many times we hear "unbelievable" and there is a reason for this word. It´s far from credible what we are whitnessing.

Marco Haller also talked about the race and mentioned that he was happy for WVA because he dereved it as a still human rider where it is possible that he can win the race.

So many riders and people don´t believe what is happening but only a few people can say something without harming themselves and risking losing their jobs.
Thank you for the tip about the podcast. Certainly great information about the race from the inside of the peloton. Walscheid certainly was very impressed by Pogacars speed (he did not expect him to be able to ride so fast on the flat after the pavé) but he does not suggest he felt something fishy was going on. He also says Pogacar rode like a "champion" at 38 min. Would he use that word if he thought Pogacar clearly is a cheater? I doubt that.

Don't get me wrong. Pogacar's performance level is hard to understand. We know there have been several developments in cycling (training + technology) which could explain it but for us it is impossible to verify anything. On the other hand what I read in this thread about the "clear" signs of his cheating also is far away from being verified. But this is not about discouraging people from writing about their doubts or suspicions. Quite the opposite. I really enjoyed the podcast. Thanks for that.
 
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Feb 24, 2020
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Thank you for the tip about the podcast. Certainly great information about the race from the inside of the peloton. Walscheid certainly was very impressed by Pogacars speed (he did not expect him to be able to ride so fast one the flat after the pavé) but he does not suggest he felt something fishy was going on. He also says Pogacar rode like a "champion" at 38 min. Would he use that word if he thought Pogacar clearly is a cheater? I doubt that.

Don't get me wrong. Pogacar's performance level is hard to understand. We know there have been several developments in cycling (training + technology) which could explain it but for us it is impossible to verify anything. On the other hand what I read in this thread about the "clear" signs of his cheating also is far away from being verified. But this is not about discouraging people from writing about their doubts or suspicions. Quite the opposite. I really enjoyed the podcast. Thanks for that.
The thing is that those developments (training + technology) do not explain Pogacar's performance leap since 2024. It does not explain his lack of bad days and his alien climb performances for which we basically lack an exaplanation apart from the unbelievable comments from some that he must be an extreme outlier that didn't know how to train prior 2024. While prior to 2024 you could speculate that something may be going on, pointing to the history of Giannetti and Pogacar's transformation from very good but not special junior to TdF winner at such a young age, things are much more transparant now. Yes, with very high probability we can now say that there is something going, not only by Pogacar of course but he is at the pinnacle of it. Our guesses, observations and frustrations about what happens pins this thread continuously to the top of the clinic forum.
 
Jul 15, 2023
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The thing is that those developments (training + technology) do not explain Pogacar's performance leap since 2024. It does not explain his lack of bad days and his alien climb performances for which we basically lack an exaplanation apart from the unbelievable comments from some that he must be an extreme outlier that didn't know how to train prior 2024. While prior to 2024 you could speculate that something may be going on, pointing to the history of Giannetti and Pogacar's transformation from very good but not special junior to TdF winner at such a young age, things are much more transparant now. Yes, with very high probability we can now say that there is something going, not only by Pogacar of course but he is at the pinnacle of it. Our guesses, observations and frustrations about what happens pins this thread continuously to the top of the clinic forum.
100%. I’d be willing for someone to advance some theories as to how Pogacar seems free of the limits that other cyclists are subject to. An explanation, as you say, of his performance leap (from an alien level already) in 2024 to god like ability. His immunity to illness. The sheer consistency of his performances across an insanely busy riding season which covers the most difficult races, and all race types. Merely postulating that he uses advanced technology and diet and training methods is a ridiculous argument, given that everyone else is operating at a similar level. Likewise, waving off objections by claiming that he is, effectively, super human, is not really an argument at all. I’d also like to read a reasonable explanation of how he can accelerate so quickly up insanely steep slopes, *with very little apparent effort.* How he can attack and ride heavier riders off his wheel on flat terrain or, even more startlingly, cobbled courses *with very little apparent effort.* Usually as part of insanely long solo rides. How he can, at the same time, attack lighter, world class climbers at high altitudes, accelerating suddenly yet smoothly to effect an immediate break, and then keep the effort going for long periods *with very little apparent effort.* Before, of course, he crosses the line looking like he’s made *very little apparent effort.* In another universe, Pogacar’s a decent puncheur, a fair all rounder who would win his fair share of stage races and one day events, but nothing more.
 
Feb 27, 2023
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100%. I’d be willing for someone to advance some theories as to how Pogacar seems free of the limits that other cyclists are subject to. An explanation, as you say, of his performance leap (from an alien level already) in 2024 to god like ability. His immunity to illness. The sheer consistency of his performances across an insanely busy riding season which covers the most difficult races, and all race types. Merely postulating that he uses advanced technology and diet and training methods is a ridiculous argument, given that everyone else is operating at a similar level. Likewise, waving off objections by claiming that he is, effectively, super human, is not really an argument at all. I’d also like to read a reasonable explanation of how he can accelerate so quickly up insanely steep slopes, *with very little apparent effort.* How he can attack and ride heavier riders off his wheel on flat terrain or, even more startlingly, cobbled courses *with very little apparent effort.* Usually as part of insanely long solo rides. How he can, at the same time, attack lighter, world class climbers at high altitudes, accelerating suddenly yet smoothly to effect an immediate break, and then keep the effort going for long periods *with very little apparent effort.* Before, of course, he crosses the line looking like he’s made *very little apparent effort.* In another universe, Pogacar’s a decent puncheur, a fair all rounder who would win his fair share of stage races and one day events, but nothing more.
HIs accelerations are not that unrealistic. What he does really well is to stay fresh at the end of the races, i.e., his endurance. If you want an explanation go back in this thread after last year's FW and I did a physical model and analysis of his ride up the Mur.
 
Jul 7, 2013
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Would you at the very least acknowledge that historically it is rare for someone of Pogacar's build to be competitive in Paris-Roubaix?

He's probably around 67 kg during cobbled monuments. Way less than most of his PR competitors but not a lightweight climber at all. If you consider his extreme w/kg it's not surprising that he has the wattage of a 70+ kg guy.
 
May 22, 2024
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This is clinic,so i can say this.Like epo era gave great benefit to big trucks on climbs,smaller guys benefit today.This means guy like pogacar can constantlly refill his engine and push high watts on flat. Due to advances in equipment,even if you higher posture (and smaller frontal area),your overall CDA is still smaller than big guy.So Pog can breath much more and have good aero on par with more bended bigger guy.
 
Jul 15, 2023
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HIs accelerations are not that unrealistic. What he does really well is to stay fresh at the end of the races, i.e., his endurance. If you want an explanation go back in this thread after last year's FW and I did a physical model and analysis of his ride up the Mur.
The problem is, no one else does it. Also, I’d accept the accelerations more easily if he would do us the favour of at least looking like he was putting in the effort. Instead, he appears preternatural, unreal. Artificial. There is often a disconnection between what his bike is doing and what he appears to be doing with his body. More than myself have commented on this. It was stark at PR, where Pogacar attacked Van Aert looking for all the world like he was barely doing anything but coasting past, his torso high. By comparison, Van Aert was turning himself inside out just to keep up when it should be the reverse on such a course. I don’t buy the equipment theory either. If better equipment makes the likes of PR easier to ride, where are all the other sub70kg riders? And, of course, the better equipment is being used by everyone else and will merely allow the 75kg riders to apply their superior power and weight ever more efficiently. It’s not a serious explanation why Pogacar does what he does. I suggest, with all humility, that the reasons lie squarely with who he’s being managed and paid by, it’s not that complicated.
 
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May 22, 2024
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Its not Pogs fault,Remco been ducking for years.Thats like Jonas fans talking about lack of bad day or Seixas fans talking about watts. :joycat:
 
Jul 7, 2013
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The problem is, no one else does it. Also, I’d accept the accelerations more easily if he would do us the favour of at least looking like he was putting in the effort. Instead, he appears preternatural, unreal. Artificial. There is often a disconnection between what his bike is doing and what he appears to be doing with his body. More than myself have commented on this. It was stark at PR, where Pogacar attacked Van Aert looking for all the world like he was barely doing anything but coasting past, his torso high. By comparison, Van Aert was turning himself inside out just to keep up when it should be the reverse on such a course. I don’t buy the equipment theory either. If better equipment makes the likes of PR easier to ride, where are all the other sub 70kg riders? And, of course, the better equipment is being used by everyone else and will merely allow the 75kg riders to apply their superior power and weight ever more efficiently. It’s not a serious explanation why Pogacar does what he does. I suggest, with all humility, that the reasons lie squarely with who he’s being managed and paid by, it’s not that complicated.

Say what you want about that FW'2025 performance but do you realize that Pogacar was 19 seconds slower than Alaphilippe and Roglic 4 years earlier? Light years on this climb. Then imagine how slow the rest of guys were as they lost so much to Pog. No wonder they looked like snails and Pogacar has a history of dominating in cold conditions.
 
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Jul 15, 2023
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Say what you want about that FW'2025 performance but do you realize that Pogacar was 19 seconds slower than Alaphilippe and Roglic 4 years earlier? Light years on this climb. Then imagine how slow the rest of guys were as they lost so much to Pog. No wonder they looked like snails and Pogacar has a history of dominating in cold conditions.
Soooo…. Are you suggesting that Pogacar is merely benefiting from being up against a bunch of snails? A generation of cycling mediocrity? This peloton ? The fastest peloton in history? That’s just delivered the fastest Paris Roubaix in the history of the race?
 
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Jul 7, 2013
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Soooo…. Are you suggesting that Pogacar is merely benefiting from being up against a bunch of snails? A generation of cycling mediocrity? This peloton ? The fastest peloton in history? That’s just delivered the fastest Paris Roubaix in the history of the race?

I'm telling that he didn't have to do mega-hard standing attack to be 19 seconds slower than Roglic and Ala. Got it? It's the conditions that slowed down everybody (Pogacar included) and the pace was lower.
 
Jul 15, 2023
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I'm telling that he didn't have to do mega-hard standing attack to be 19 seconds slower than Roglic and Ala. Got it? It's the conditions that slowed down everybody (Pogacar included) and the pace was lower.
You’re picking one single race to support what? That he’s not that fast? I’m not sure this is quite the flex you think it is.
 
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You’re picking one single race to support what? That he’s not that fast? I’m not sure this is quite the flex you think it is.

This was one of the slowest ascents of Mur actually and that's why it's surprising you find it so outrageous. Obviously Pogacar had a lot of monster performances in the last few years, which are more suspicious (in terms of doping), I'm not arguing with that.
 

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