Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Re: Sky

I'm curious to know who he was rooming with at Pologne.

it happened during Pologne, but not as the race. That's the way I understand it at least:

Dr Peters confirmed to the BBC that a member of Team Sky who shared a house with Edmondson had found "a needle and some vials", and had taken a photograph of the evidence.

and in early 2014 Ian Boswell said: "My flatmate is Josh Edmondson, who’s also on Sky, so I have a training buddy."

So, as I doubt he moved out during the season, it probably was him who told the team about it

 

[JRanton]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

He admits himself he was depressed. Some things are best left unreported. The press would have gone to town on it with no regard for the rider's wellbeing.

Agreed.

Strange one this innit. If the story is as simple as it appears on face value, then the team did the right thing by him. In which case, why the hell is he telling this now, in the midst of the ongoing fiasco? Seems a bit of a backstabbing move? Perhaps more going on here than it appears.

There has been an awful lot of backstabbing and settling of old scores going on.

Take the allegation that Wiggins was injected with triamcinolone at the 2011 Dauphine. That has never sat well with me. Kimmage's recent revelation that he was anonymously emailed with a similar allegation, but with no mention that it was triamcinolone, and also with the incorrect year that it took place, set off alarm bells for me. The specific triamcinolone allegation to Matt Lawton of the Daily Mail only emerged AFTER the fancy bears leak of the triamcinolone TUE's.

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that the same person who made that allegation was also aware that Freeman's laptop had been subsequently stolen and knew that he hadn't been uploading riders' medical records on the drop box system during the period in question. Therefore the person makes the triamcinolone allegation, just after the TUE revelations which of course adds a certain level of credibility to the claim, safely in the knowledge that Freeman and Sky aren't able to prove that it wasn't triamcinolone and you'll be able to cause almost as much reputational damage than if it actually was the drug you've claimed it to be.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

Steve Peters had a duty of care to him as a rider and as it sounds a patient that for him takes priority and it always should over anti doping rules.

Peters has no problem discussing personal details with the BBC!!!!!

I though patient confidentiality takes precedence.

 

[70kmph]

Re: Sky

I'm curious to know who he was rooming with at Pologne.

Ian Boswell, according to the radio interview

 

[bigcog]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

Steve Peters had a duty of care to him as a rider and as it sounds a patient that for him takes priority and it always should over anti doping rules.

Peters has no problem discussing personal details with the BBC!!!!!

I though patient confidentiality takes precedence.

Yes but he's basically stabbing Peters and Sky in the back and giving a different account to theirs, so that's probably why Peters isn't too bothered about that now ...

 

[Dan2016]

Edmondson: saying he was using Tramadol almost every day. Too much exhaustion and pain without it, felt he needed it just to do his job. Side effect was severe depression, suicidal ideations etc. Personality change. This side effect mimics the account of the Wiggle womens cycling team manager, her riders drastic personality change on Tramadol.

He explains the extreme pressure you are under at that level etc.
The bigger picture I'm getting out of this, and it's hardly a revelation, is the gross exploitation of young people in this sport.

 

[B_Ugli]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

Steve Peters had a duty of care to him as a rider and as it sounds a patient that for him takes priority and it always should over anti doping rules.

Peters has no problem discussing personal details with the BBC!!!!!

I though patient confidentiality takes precedence.

It takes precedence when it protects SDB's reputation!

All joking apart I trained as a Lawyer in a previous life and this whole medical confidentiality they are all hiding behind is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard of.

Yes it's correct that there is patient confidentiality.

But getting a persons permission to share it is simply a matter of getting a signed "notice of authority". This can be open ended or specify information regarding xyz.

For example:

Brad we want to clear up this story once and for all
Sure I have nothing to hide apart from ABC
Okay but we only need you to reveal XYZ
Brad to lawyer how can I do this
Lawyer to brad sign this NoA authorising Dr Freeman to reveal XYZ from your medical records
NoA signed
Records released
End of story

If Sky have nothing to hide this is as easy as it is.

Without tip toing around the subject if a guy or girl doesn't want the world to know they picked up an STD in their teens the NoA can be worded so as to avoid ahem any embarrassment.

It's slightly bizarre that a parliamentary committee and UKAD aren't aware of the simplicity of getting around this.

 

[Mr.White]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

He admits himself he was depressed. Some things are best left unreported. The press would have gone to town on it with no regard for the rider's wellbeing.

Agreed.

Strange one this innit. If the story is as simple as it appears on face value, then the team did the right thing by him. In which case, why the hell is he telling this now, in the midst of the ongoing fiasco? Seems a bit of a backstabbing move? Perhaps more going on here than it appears.

There has been an awful lot of backstabbing and settling of old scores going on.

Take the allegation that Wiggins was injected with triamcinolone at the 2011 Dauphine. That has never sat well with me. Kimmage's recent revelation that he was anonymously emailed with a similar allegation, but with no mention that it was triamcinolone, and also with the incorrect year that it took place, set off alarm bells for me. The specific triamcinolone allegation to Matt Lawton of the Daily Mail only emerged AFTER the fancy bears leak of the triamcinolone TUE's.

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that the same person who made that allegation was also aware that Freeman's laptop had been subsequently stolen and knew that he hadn't been uploading riders' medical records on the drop box system during the period in question. Therefore the person makes the triamcinolone allegation, just after the TUE revelations which of course adds a certain level of credibility to the claim, safely in the knowledge that Freeman and Sky aren't able to prove that it wasn't triamcinolone and you'll be able to cause almost as much reputational damage than if it actually was the drug you've claimed it to be.

And you actually think Freeman's lap top was really stolen?! :lol:

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

He admits himself he was depressed. Some things are best left unreported. The press would have gone to town on it with no regard for the rider's wellbeing.

Agreed.

Strange one this innit. If the story is as simple as it appears on face value, then the team did the right thing by him. In which case, why the hell is he telling this now, in the midst of the ongoing fiasco? Seems a bit of a backstabbing move? Perhaps more going on here than it appears.

There has been an awful lot of backstabbing and settling of old scores going on.

Take the allegation that Wiggins was injected with triamcinolone at the 2011 Dauphine. That has never sat well with me. Kimmage's recent revelation that he was anonymously emailed with a similar allegation, but with no mention that it was triamcinolone, and also with the incorrect year that it took place, set off alarm bells for me. The specific triamcinolone allegation to Matt Lawton of the Daily Mail only emerged AFTER the fancy bears leak of the triamcinolone TUE's.

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that the same person who made that allegation was also aware that Freeman's laptop had been subsequently stolen and knew that he hadn't been uploading riders' medical records on the drop box system during the period in question. Therefore the person makes the triamcinolone allegation, just after the TUE revelations which of course adds a certain level of credibility to the claim, safely in the knowledge that Freeman and Sky aren't able to prove that it wasn't triamcinolone and you'll be able to cause almost as much reputational damage than if it actually was the drug you've claimed it to be.

I reckon all of that is a 'stretch' to be fair. Pure speculation really. Sounds a bit like an orchestrated one person conspiracy theory, but maybe that's misreading your point.

Is that not a distraction from the reality of everything that's happened since?

(For the sake of clarity, my use of the word 'backstabbing' was accompanied by the qualifying words if, seems, perhaps plus question marks, all of which were very deliberate, not casual. Maybe that was still ambiguous of me, but either way, I wouldn't personally subscribe to your subsequent theory).

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

Steve Peters had a duty of care to him as a rider and as it sounds a patient that for him takes priority and it always should over anti doping rules.

Peters has no problem discussing personal details with the BBC!!!!!

I though patient confidentiality takes precedence.

It takes precedence when it protects SDB's reputation!

All joking apart I trained as a Lawyer in a previous life and this whole medical confidentiality they are all hiding behind is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard of.

Yes it's correct that there is patient confidentiality.

But getting a persons permission to share it is simply a matter of getting a signed "notice of authority". This can be open ended or specify information regarding xyz.

For example:

Brad we want to clear up this story once and for all
Sure I have nothing to hide apart from ABC
Okay but we only need you to reveal XYZ
Brad to lawyer how can I do this
Lawyer to brad sign this NoA authorising Dr Freeman to reveal XYZ from your medical records
NoA signed
Records released
End of story

If Sky have nothing to hide this is as easy as it is.

Without tip toing around the subject if a guy or girl doesn't want the world to know they picked up an STD in their teens the NoA can be worded so as to avoid ahem any embarrassment.

It's slightly bizarre that a parliamentary committee and UKAD aren't aware of the simplicity of getting around this.

Very well put.
It's been very odd right from the start that they haven't being pressed much much harder on this confidentiality bollox.

 

[L'arriviste]

Team Sky boss Dave Brailsford praised the "very clear" new [No Needles] policy for helping create "a level playing field where everyone plays by the rules."

"What I would like to see, I hasten to add, is the enforcement of it," Brailsford added. "It's one thing to have a rule, it's another thing to have an enforcement of that rule."

CBSNews.com, 30 June 2011

Not to draw a deliberate parallel with fluimicil but why would one cross the border to Italy when the wherewithal for self-injection is readily available in French pharmacies? A possible reason might be that one was acting on fairly specific advice. I mean, I have never even heard of "damiana compositum".

It is also quite interesting, to me at least, that Sky management actually went so far as to have the "seized" substances tested: this was a calculation someone thought it necessary to make. Hopefully Edmondson did intend to buy vitamins rather than "do a Vansevenant" and order what he thought was something stronger.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

He admits himself he was depressed. Some things are best left unreported. The press would have gone to town on it with no regard for the rider's wellbeing.

Agreed.

Strange one this innit. If the story is as simple as it appears on face value, then the team did the right thing by him. In which case, why the hell is he telling this now, in the midst of the ongoing fiasco? Seems a bit of a backstabbing move? Perhaps more going on here than it appears.

There has been an awful lot of backstabbing and settling of old scores going on.

Take the allegation that Wiggins was injected with triamcinolone at the 2011 Dauphine. That has never sat well with me. Kimmage's recent revelation that he was anonymously emailed with a similar allegation, but with no mention that it was triamcinolone, and also with the incorrect year that it took place, set off alarm bells for me. The specific triamcinolone allegation to Matt Lawton of the Daily Mail only emerged AFTER the fancy bears leak of the triamcinolone TUE's.

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that the same person who made that allegation was also aware that Freeman's laptop had been subsequently stolen and knew that he hadn't been uploading riders' medical records on the drop box system during the period in question. Therefore the person makes the triamcinolone allegation, just after the TUE revelations which of course adds a certain level of credibility to the claim, safely in the knowledge that Freeman and Sky aren't able to prove that it wasn't triamcinolone and you'll be able to cause almost as much reputational damage than if it actually was the drug you've claimed it to be.

or as is more likely the case for a rider who looks like he's using peds, rides like hes using peds and behaves likes he's using peds

he was using peds

just a hunch though

You notice I've not included any reference to the charade we've been witnessing over the last few months via the select committee....

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

Very well put.
It's been very odd right from the start that they haven't being pressed much much harder on this confidentiality bollox.[/quote]

slighty odder the riders and the docs haven't offered it up......it's as though they have something to hide....

 

[Remmie123]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

He admits himself he was depressed. Some things are best left unreported. The press would have gone to town on it with no regard for the rider's wellbeing.

Agree. to expand on my final comment, while i think ethically on behalf of the rider it was the correct thing to do to not report it, this is another definite example of sky contradicting their 100% transparent mantra. 100% transparent does not mean totally see through apart from when some one is mentally in a bad place.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Sky

talking of sky transparency, are we still awaiting that study regarding Henaos dodgy blood values?

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Sky

talking of sky transparency, are we still awaiting that study regarding Henaos dodgy blood values?

Yes still waiting. Although if I recall correctly both sides(Sky and Sheffield University) said it was up to the other one to release it.

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Sky

talking of sky transparency, are we still awaiting that study regarding Henaos dodgy blood values?

Yes still waiting. Although if I recall correctly both sides(Sky and Sheffield University) said it was up to the other one to release it.

with the current high profile...perhaps some journos could start digging a bit more...will ask a mate who tweets...

 

[Benotti69]

Sky covered up doping. Breaks WADA code for complicity.

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

slighty odder the riders and the docs haven't offered it up......it's as though they have something to hide....

Yep, something to hide indeed. It's almost as if Gollum really thinks people don't see this.


(At least Geee is a lovely lad though...)

 

[The Hegelian]

Re: Re:

Edmonsdson, semi confession. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/39293763, he did it without team knowledge, but they allegedly tried to keep it quiet.

Im just watching this on bbc news now, its said the team found a needle and vitamins in his room, but didn't report it due to being "worried about his mental state" and he admitted it to the team but it was covered up.

Another profound example of transparency.

He admits himself he was depressed. Some things are best left unreported. The press would have gone to town on it with no regard for the rider's wellbeing.

Agreed.

Strange one this innit. If the story is as simple as it appears on face value, then the team did the right thing by him. In which case, why the hell is he telling this now, in the midst of the ongoing fiasco? Seems a bit of a backstabbing move? Perhaps more going on here than it appears.

There has been an awful lot of backstabbing and settling of old scores going on.

Take the allegation that Wiggins was injected with triamcinolone at the 2011 Dauphine. That has never sat well with me. Kimmage's recent revelation that he was anonymously emailed with a similar allegation, but with no mention that it was triamcinolone, and also with the incorrect year that it took place, set off alarm bells for me. The specific triamcinolone allegation to Matt Lawton of the Daily Mail only emerged AFTER the fancy bears leak of the triamcinolone TUE's.

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that the same person who made that allegation was also aware that Freeman's laptop had been subsequently stolen and knew that he hadn't been uploading riders' medical records on the drop box system during the period in question. Therefore the person makes the triamcinolone allegation, just after the TUE revelations which of course adds a certain level of credibility to the claim, safely in the knowledge that Freeman and Sky aren't able to prove that it wasn't triamcinolone and you'll be able to cause almost as much reputational damage than if it actually was the drug you've claimed it to be.

Such a marvelous leap of irrational rationality! I don't think you can claim to be on the side of reason here....because you always begin from the same fixed predicate, and no matter how much evidence emerges you simply preform the same cognitive task of using logic to justify that starting predicate.

At some stage, that logic starts to look a lot more like fantasy.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I don't think it's a stretch to assume that the same person who made that allegation was also aware that Freeman's laptop had been subsequently stolen and knew that he hadn't been uploading riders' medical records on the drop box system during the period in question. Therefore the person makes the triamcinolone allegation, just after the TUE revelations which of course adds a certain level of credibility to the claim, safely in the knowledge that Freeman and Sky aren't able to prove that it wasn't triamcinolone and you'll be able to cause almost as much reputational damage than if it actually was the drug you've claimed it to be.

And you actually think Freeman's lap top was really stolen?! :lol:

Stolen but yet not reported and then later deleted from remote.

Got to love the lies. Like a teenager in their Mom's basement is coming out with this stuff!!!!! :lol:

 

[Valv.Piti]

I haven't really followed this case, but who cares about this talentless neo-pro who injected himself with vitamins??

 

[snccdcno]

Re:

I haven't really followed this case, but who cares about this talentless neo-pro who injected himself with vitamins??

Dr Steve Peters apparently.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I haven't really followed this case, but who cares about this talentless neo-pro who injected himself with vitamins??

Dr Steve Peters apparently.

Yes, Sky had his best interests at heart as they offloaded him to fend for himself and kicked the door closed behind him.

 

[Valv.Piti]

So he cheats, while making no results what so ever and, then doesn't get a contract extension and later blames it all on Sky? I must admit, a little petty, but Sky doesnt look good at all obviously, but this really is nothing compared to everything else, isn't it?