The media's contribution to the Armstrong Lie

[MacRoadie]

Maybe he was simply looking for more "altitude" training then!

C'mon man!

He was off reconnoitering subsequent climbs. Aerial surveillance baby!

No one trained harder, longer, ate less, rode more, was more dedicated, or wanted it more than Lance.

 

[Granville57]

C'mon man!

He was off reconnoitering subsequent climbs. Aerial surveillance baby!

No one trained harder, longer, ate less, rode more, was more dedicated, or wanted it more than Lance.

So...who did pay for that 'copter then?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So...who did pay for that 'copter then?

It is provided by ASO for some of the mountain top finishes for the stage winner or race leader as they usually finish quite late after podium obligations, interviews and anti-doping control.

 

[Polish]

One of my favorite helicopter stories comes from one of Bob Roll's books.
I do apologize for a quote containing the "F" word sorry:

From One Heli TOur, a tale from stage 17 of the 1986 Tour de France. Greg Lemond kicked Hinault's *** on the Col de Granon and the only to get the riders down was by helicopter:

...I got to the steps to board and nearly froze. From outside in the bright sun, I couldn't see into the helicopter...

As my eyes adjusted to the darkness inside the 'copter, I saw that none other than Andrew Hampsten was seated directly across from me. "Whoa, Drew baby!" I practically jumped up at seeing a fellow American. "Andy, you slayed today," I exclaimed in glee. "Did you see LeMond crush these frog dweebs?" I asked.

Andy just kind of nodded, all subdued. As my adjusted further, right next to Andy sat Greg LeMond, gloriously clad in yellow. "Whoa!!" I jumped up for real and grabbed Le Mond by the shoulders, shaking him and screaming, "Greg, you beast! You got the yellow jersey man! You're going to massacre these Philistines." I sat down and said, "I was climbin' with Hinault, and all the Frenchies were ****ed that you dropped his sorry ***."

Just then, my eyes fully adjusted to the darkness and there sat Bernard Hinault himself. Oops. I could've crawled udner my seat. "Hey Bernie, what's up?" was about all I could mumble. To make matters worse, the owner of the La Vie Claire team and one of France's biggest industrialists, Bernard Tapie, was sitting right next to Hinault. Tapie's script for Hinault to win his sixth Tour de France was about to be rewritten by LeMond.

The door was closed and copter blades started to howl. I looked straight at the drab olive wall and saw stenciled there in big white military letters, "Made in the USA." "All right, Tapie," I screamed, "you see this (pointing to the sign)? Made in the USA. Baby, everything is gonna be fine."

Tapie was not amused, but Greg, Andy, and me all started cracking up. Even Hinault cracked a little smile. We took off in a cloud of dust and the rest, as they say, was cycling history.

 

[Granville57]

It is provided by ASO for some of the mountain top finishes for the stage winner or race leader as they usually finish quite late after podium obligations, interviews and anti-doping control.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for. I had wondered as much but I wasn't sure.

One of my favorite helicopter stories comes from one of Bob Roll's books.
I do apologize for a quote containing the "F" word sorry:

That is a truly classic story!

 

[theswordsman]

"Armstrong worried at doping in cycling"

I just saw that headline in Google News and wondered if it's a sign of the Apocalypse or an interview from Bizarro World. A few of the quotes:

But to me that is really a byproduct of the sport trying harder than any other sport.

"I know if you laid those controls over any other world sport, especially one as demanding as cycling, you would have as many, if not more, positives."

"I won the Tour de France seven times and I think I won it because we changed the way people in cycling do business," he said.

"And I'm not going to dance around the fact there has been plenty of questions about that.

"But the reality is we came with a whole new approach to the sport.

"We revolutionised the way people train, the way they build morale in the team, the way they preview the courses, the way they race, the way they sell the sport, the way they tell that story around the world.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8196320

 

[Ferminal]

I just saw that headline in Google News and wondered if it's a sign of the Apocalypse or an interview from Bizarro World. A few of the quotes:






http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8196320

The first quote is a reworded expression of "never tested positive".

The second is the restatement of "the myth".

Same old story, just updated for 2011.

As for the Aus media, I'm going to lose it if I see another newspaper article, radio/tv news bulletin or tweet which says Lance is going to do something in the race. FSN just had a 5minute interview with some Adelaide hack discussing Lance's prospects in the race ffs.

 

[D-Queued]

Maybe he was simply looking for more "altitude" training then!

Exactly. I heard that the hypoxic tent had a little tear in it, and this was the best he could do on short notice.

Dave.

 

[Granville57]

I just saw that headline in Google News and wondered if it's a sign of the Apocalypse or an interview from Bizarro World. A few of the quotes:

"We revolutionised the way people train, the way they build morale in the team, the way they preview the courses, the way they race, the way they sell the sport, the way they tell that story around the world."

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry after reading that. He is nothing if not...consistent. The part in bold? Can't argue with that.

 

[AnythingButKestrel]

I just saw that headline in Google News and wondered if it's a sign of the Apocalypse or an interview from Bizarro World. A few of the quotes:






http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8196320

Next up in the news: Sammy "The Bull" Gravano laments the scourge of organized crime.

 

[MacRoadie]

Next up in the news: Sammy "The Bull" Gravano laments the scourge of organized crime.

Pre-empted by Jerry Lee Lewis on the sanctity of marriage and it's relevance to the institute of family...

 

[auscyclefan94]

If anyone is allergic to Bull**** then don't have a look at this video!

Bike Shorts Episode 65

 

[Ferminal]

The media coming out of South Australia is an absolute joke. People would be inclined to believe that there was some sort of cultural festival going on, not a professional cycling race. The "cyclist" who receives 99% of the coverage will not be in the top50 most competitive cyclists next week. Anyone who contributes to this charade is making a mockery of professional cycling.

All this coverage should be directed at Cavendish, Greipel, Farrar, McEwen, Bobridge, Meyer etc etc, not some nonentity who is not here to race.

If anyone is allergic to Bull**** then don't have a look at this video!

Bike Shorts Episode 65

There is a textbook exchange in there... let me paraphrase:

Tomo:A few people, a critical minority who don't accept Lance and what he's done, he's won seven Tours and globalised the sport

McKenzie: You need to move past the criticism, he's a great athlete, "Since his comeback, he's propped up an industry (cycling)", millions for cancer research, cancer sufferers inspired by Lance. Move past the negativity and allegations, too much noise about the bad things coming from a few people with personal vendettas.

Tomo: Globally he's got more fans than critics

This video just proves my earlier point, the whole thing is dedicated to Lance aside from a bit on McEwen because he rides for RadioShack.

What I don't understand is why two people who claim to be rational go to such lengths to defend something they know to be false. Surely they have more respect for themselves, and the sport.

 

[auscyclefan94]

tbh Ferminal, I don't know if tomalaris really knows it & he won't even after the charges are laid.

 

[Ferminal]

http://player.sbs.com.au/cycling#/c...as/playlist/Lance-Armstrong-press-conference/

lol, how old does he look? He's only 39...

I skipped to the end of the video, and it seems the bit where the conference reportedly ended abruptly has been cut out. Never question the myth.

 

[auscyclefan94]

http://player.sbs.com.au/cycling#/c...as/playlist/Lance-Armstrong-press-conference/

lol, how old does he look? He's only 39...

I skipped to the end of the video, and it seems the bit where the conference reportedly ended abruptly has been cut out. Never question the myth.

Funnily enough he answered a question about Kimmage but once the FDA got mentioned he went into hiding.

 

[Ferminal]

Oh, I skipped through it and only saw him say something about Pegasus, and Bobridge (just because he made some comment 2 years ago).

I hope he used "bitter"...

 

[theswordsman]

Slightly off topic, but brand new and maybe (hopefully) a sign of the times.

NEW YORK - A new study on celebrity endorsements shows that big names often don’t pay big dividends in advertising.

It ranked a Tiger Woods commercial for Nike, followed by a Lance Armstrong Radio Shack ad as the worst celebrity spots of 2010 based on effectiveness.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/study-tiger-woods-lance-armstrong-71489

 

[Boeing]

you really are a boring person auscyclefan arent you.

Did anyone ever have a boring dream?

clearly dude finds long rides boring. All his time is spent here.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I am fairly new to this forum and have not read much in the clinic.

I have been a fan of The Tour since 2001 (and it's been my favourite sporting event since 2003), but haven't become very aware as to how deep the drug "scandals" have gone (go) until about 2008 onwards.

Firstly I think that most of the general public believe that Lance is clean, and this is understandable. I have bought up the issue of cycling and drugs with my brother a few times (he has become a bit of a fan too) and he doesn't see how I can accuse Armstrong with "no evidence." Nevertheless, Lance had to be on illegal substances. The revelations from the likes of Riis and Jorg Jancsh have been critical to making semi fans of the sport (like myself) more aware of what has gone on in the past.

As has been spoken about here (and I'm sure countless times on other threads) is that numerous teammates of Lance were caught. His major rivals in Telekom and ONCE had doping programs. CSC was run by Riis. There is probably no top GC rider from the late '90's to the mid 00's who is not implicated in some form or another. I find Evans to be the most interesting of the top riders though (not just because I'm Australian), especially given that T-Mobile left him off their team once when he was fit (yes T-Mobile had many strong riders, but Cadel should have been one of the first 5 picked), and he does seem to appear more mortal after finishing a tough stage.

Then again, how could I rider make the podium if all of their rivals have an unfair advantage?

I am not sure as to why there is so much hate towards Armstrong. I don't particularly like the guy either (the way that he controlled the peleton in 2004 to not let a rider - I forget his name - escape because he hated him, perfectly illustrates his personality and ego), but why would it be such a big scandal for Lance to be officially caught? Or why is it such a big lie? To me, a big lie would be if an athlete got an unfair advantage on all his opponents and triumphed because of that. Clearly this was not the case with Armstrong as everyone was on it, which kind of levels the playing field. And his team didn't have more money to spend than say Telekom, at least in the early years.

Why is Armstrong hated more than other riders for denying doping? Vino denied for ages (and maybe still does?) after his official positive in 2007 yet is still loved. Are people expecting Sastre to come out and confess (since he rode for CSC and is almost certainly guilty)?

Sometimes I just think that people let their general hatred of Armstrong get in the way of their judgement.

And even of his achievements.

The guy came back from near death and won the Tour De France 7 times!!! That IS incredible. If everyone doped then why does it matter if he did? And to add to that he comes back and finishers 3rd as an old man (another remarkable achievement which I think has been largely overlooked by major cycling fans - not overlooked by the general public obviously!). Personally I thought that after a few years out that there was no way he would even get near the top ten.....how wrong was I.

As for the media (in Australia anyway), it is far too Lance centralised, but then again it was Armstrong who was the main reason why I started watching The Tour (along with millions of others), so I and others who have developed an interest in the sport (or at least for me The Tour) that goes beyond LA can ignore the irrelevent media, and read stuff of greater interest, such as articles and opinions on cyclingnews and its forum.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I find it funny that on Sports tonight that was on this evening, it was said that Armstrong has given Dale Parker a helping hand after his troubles off the bike (Parker crashed his car, injured a mate and was well over the legal alcohol limit). Later we find out that Lance offered Dale a ride with his Livestrong team. What a great guy!

 

[sartain]

I am fairly new to this forum and have not read much in the clinic.

I have been a fan of The Tour since 2001 (and it's been my favourite sporting event since 2003), but haven't become very aware as to how deep the drug "scandals" have gone (go) until about 2008 onwards.

Firstly I think that most of the general public believe that Lance is clean, and this is understandable. I have bought up the issue of cycling and drugs with my brother a few times (he has become a bit of a fan too) and he doesn't see how I can accuse Armstrong with "no evidence." Nevertheless, Lance had to be on illegal substances. The revelations from the likes of Riis and Jorg Jancsh have been critical to making semi fans of the sport (like myself) more aware of what has gone on in the past.

As has been spoken about here (and I'm sure countless times on other threads) is that numerous teammates of Lance were caught. His major rivals in Telekom and ONCE had doping programs. CSC was run by Riis. There is probably no top GC rider from the late '90's to the mid 00's who is not implicated in some form or another. I find Evans to be the most interesting of the top riders though (not just because I'm Australian), especially given that T-Mobile left him off their team once when he was fit (yes T-Mobile had many strong riders, but Cadel should have been one of the first 5 picked), and he does seem to appear more mortal after finishing a tough stage.

Then again, how could I rider make the podium if all of their rivals have an unfair advantage?

I am not sure as to why there is so much hate towards Armstrong. I don't particularly like the guy either (the way that he controlled the peleton in 2004 to not let a rider - I forget his name - escape because he hated him, perfectly illustrates his personality and ego), but why would it be such a big scandal for Lance to be officially caught? Or why is it such a big lie? To me, a big lie would be if an athlete got an unfair advantage on all his opponents and triumphed because of that. Clearly this was not the case with Armstrong as everyone was on it, which kind of levels the playing field. And his team didn't have more money to spend than say Telekom, at least in the early years.

Why is Armstrong hated more than other riders for denying doping? Vino denied for ages (and maybe still does?) after his official positive in 2007 yet is still loved. Are people expecting Sastre to come out and confess (since he rode for CSC and is almost certainly guilty)?

Sometimes I just think that people let their general hatred of Armstrong get in the way of their judgement.

And even of his achievements.

The guy came back from near death and won the Tour De France 7 times!!! That IS incredible. If everyone doped then why does it matter if he did? And to add to that he comes back and finishers 3rd as an old man (another remarkable achievement which I think has been largely overlooked by major cycling fans - not overlooked by the general public obviously!). Personally I thought that after a few years out that there was no way he would even get near the top ten.....how wrong was I.

As for the media (in Australia anyway), it is far too Lance centralised, but then again it was Armstrong who was the main reason why I started watching The Tour (along with millions of others), so I and others who have developed an interest in the sport (or at least for me The Tour) that goes beyond LA can ignore the irrelevent media, and read stuff of greater interest, such as articles and opinions on cyclingnews and its forum.

Man, you are really setting yourself up for a major beating on this board! Since we are NOT the "general public" here on The Clinic, I will start the ball rolling . . .

Perhaps you should offer to buy a round of drinks with Skippy, Polish, Flicker, etc., *edited by mod ***

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I am fairly new to this forum and have not read much in the clinic.

I have been a fan of The Tour since 2001 (and it's been my favourite sporting event since 2003), but haven't become very aware as to how deep the drug "scandals" have gone (go) until about 2008 onwards.

Firstly I think that most of the general public believe that Lance is clean, and this is understandable. I have bought up the issue of cycling and drugs with my brother a few times (he has become a bit of a fan too) and he doesn't see how I can accuse Armstrong with "no evidence." Nevertheless, Lance had to be on illegal substances. The revelations from the likes of Riis and Jorg Jancsh have been critical to making semi fans of the sport (like myself) more aware of what has gone on in the past.

As has been spoken about here (and I'm sure countless times on other threads) is that numerous teammates of Lance were caught. His major rivals in Telekom and ONCE had doping programs. CSC was run by Riis. There is probably no top GC rider from the late '90's to the mid 00's who is not implicated in some form or another. I find Evans to be the most interesting of the top riders though (not just because I'm Australian), especially given that T-Mobile left him off their team once when he was fit (yes T-Mobile had many strong riders, but Cadel should have been one of the first 5 picked), and he does seem to appear more mortal after finishing a tough stage.

Then again, how could I rider make the podium if all of their rivals have an unfair advantage?

I am not sure as to why there is so much hate towards Armstrong. I don't particularly like the guy either (the way that he controlled the peleton in 2004 to not let a rider - I forget his name - escape because he hated him, perfectly illustrates his personality and ego), but why would it be such a big scandal for Lance to be officially caught? Or why is it such a big lie? To me, a big lie would be if an athlete got an unfair advantage on all his opponents and triumphed because of that. Clearly this was not the case with Armstrong as everyone was on it, which kind of levels the playing field. And his team didn't have more money to spend than say Telekom, at least in the early years.

Why is Armstrong hated more than other riders for denying doping? Vino denied for ages (and maybe still does?) after his official positive in 2007 yet is still loved. Are people expecting Sastre to come out and confess (since he rode for CSC and is almost certainly guilty)?

Sometimes I just think that people let their general hatred of Armstrong get in the way of their judgement.

And even of his achievements.

The guy came back from near death and won the Tour De France 7 times!!! That IS incredible. If everyone doped then why does it matter if he did? And to add to that he comes back and finishers 3rd as an old man (another remarkable achievement which I think has been largely overlooked by major cycling fans - not overlooked by the general public obviously!). Personally I thought that after a few years out that there was no way he would even get near the top ten.....how wrong was I.

As for the media (in Australia anyway), it is far too Lance centralised, but then again it was Armstrong who was the main reason why I started watching The Tour (along with millions of others), so I and others who have developed an interest in the sport (or at least for me The Tour) that goes beyond LA can ignore the irrelevent media, and read stuff of greater interest, such as articles and opinions on cyclingnews and its forum.

You answered your question is your posts.

Even though you acknowledge he dopes you point out that the 'general sporting public' believe he is clean, the reason for that is because he has vigourously claimed to have ridden clean.

While many riders deny they dope Armstrong has built his reputation on it - it was central to his book, in many countless interviews and he even has advertisements about it.

Also - it is not a level playing field that others also enjoyed.
Which other riders 'donate' to the UCI? Did Telecom have advance notice of tests like USPS had? Which other GT contender worked with Ferrari after 1999?

What other rider has intimated people in the way Armstrong has? You mentioned the Simeoni incident - what other rider has done that? Or thretened peoples livlihood or made personal remarks against those who have talked against him.

You admit it was LA that introduced you to cycling - well, it was a lie - so the sooner that fraud is exposed the sooner cycling has to deal with its problems.
This has been ongoing problem and ignoring it has not served the sport well.

 

[frenchfry]

Slightly off topic, but brand new and maybe (hopefully) a sign of the times.

NEW YORK - A new study on celebrity endorsements shows that big names often don’t pay big dividends in advertising.

It ranked a Tiger Woods commercial for Nike, followed by a Lance Armstrong Radio Shack ad as the worst celebrity spots of 2010 based on effectiveness.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/study-tiger-woods-lance-armstrong-71489

Not too off topic, as it could be an illustration of how Lancey-poo has lost relevance in the media and he can't get away with his arrogance anymore.

Someone posted a link to a Radioshack commercial featuring Armstrong and "Alphonse" that was not only incredibly lame, but basically suggested you could only be respected if you purchase expensive but worthless gadgets from Radioshack. Not being American I thought that this wasn't a very positive reflection on the collective intelligence of a nation - but apparently Americans were sharp enough to reject this kind of garbage.

I wonder if the Radioshack investment in a tarnished hero will be eventually evaluated as positive.

 

[Anonymous]

Liggets at it again.. rolling out the "never tested positive" line
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/armstrong-up-there-with-ali/story-e6frg7mf-1225988026292