The Real Football Thread

[bewildered]

The Portuguese seem to have an advantage over a lot of the rest of Europe, certainly over the UK, in attracting Brazilian players - speak the language, former colony and most importantly relaxed work permit rules. It is actually ridiculous that the UK refuse a PL player a work permit. A PL player will be on about 20k a week or perhaps higher, so he will pay say 10k a week in tax but they don't want it? It's not as if he's going to not work and claim benefits as soon as he gets off the plane.

Look at the profit Porto have made over the last few years on transfers http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/fc-porto/transfers-alle/verein_720.html
a lot of these players were picked up for relative buttons from S Am.

Benfica are not as profitable as Porto in the transfer market but they still make a large profit and can afford to buy big occasionally from the profit they have made http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/sl-benfica/transfers-alle/verein_294.html They do not find as much young or raw talent as Porto, but when they spend to buy a player, they usually end up either getting great value for money or selling on at a tidy profit or both.

They are both selling clubs and they know it, they need to do this just to compete on a European level and they are very successful.

If Benfica win the final, Portugal will overtake Italy as 4th best Euro league in terms of UEFA co-efficient. They are already ranked above the French league. Since Mourinho won the CL with Inter in 2010 Italy has only had one SF in the EL and CL combined (Juve last night), whereas Portugal has had 7 SFs and 4 Finals. Serious decline in Italian football and Juve are already head and shoulders above the rest in that league.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Athletic! Athletic! Zu zara nagusia! Bacalao, bacalao, del Athletic de Bilbao! Et cetera!

 

[The Hitch]

I called foxxy's post good, before he included the dumb 7% conclusion.

Interesting analysis. Thanks.

In elite sport, winning 7% more games is a huge difference. In a ~40 match league season that's 3 games, so even if the "other manager" drew three games rather than won them, that's a differential of 6 points (3pts for a win; 1 for a draw). Given that the top 3 in the Premier League this season will be covered by 2 or 3 points and the title may be awared on goal difference, I think can safely conclude that such a difference is significant.

That's assuming Mourinho was responsible for the 7 % difference. there is waaaay too many variable to establish that he is responsible for that.

In Chelsea for example he took a team that had been on the rise for a few seasons, just gelling together, and won the league. In Inter he overperformed in that he won the Champions League and Serie A rather than just Serie A which they had dominated before he came anway. But with Real he underperformed

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I called foxxy's post good, before he included the dumb 7% conclusion.

Which one you mean?

 

[gooner]

The Portuguese seem to have an advantage over a lot of the rest of Europe, certainly over the UK, in attracting Brazilian players - speak the language, former colony and most importantly relaxed work permit rules. It is actually ridiculous that the UK refuse a PL player a work permit. A PL player will be on about 20k a week or perhaps higher, so he will pay say 10k a week in tax but they don't want it? It's not as if he's going to not work and claim benefits as soon as he gets off the plane.

Glad you brought up this point.

A classic example was Angel Di Maria. I thought Arsenal had that deal done when he was still in Argentina. I even watched him in the U-20 World Cup in 2007 for Argentina alongside Aguero and Banega where he was outstanding. David Dein was just after getting booted out of Arsenal a couple of months earlier before that tournament in the summer of that year. Arsenal through Dein who played a big part, had Di Maria and another player by the name of Pedro Botelho lined up but they had to loan both to Salamanca in the Segunda Division due to the work permit criteria in the UK. Arsenal had a good arrangement with that club through Vela being loaned there for the same reason. At that tournament in 2007 Di Maria spoke about Arsenal and that he maybe headed there. In the end he went to Benfica who could throw him straight into the first team immediately.

Athletic! Athletic! Zu zara nagusia! Bacalao, bacalao, del Athletic de Bilbao! Et cetera!

One player who has impressed me is Aymeric Laporte. I would love to see him at Arsenal if Vermaelen leaves but I was reading Barca want him.

 

[gooner]

i think 7.7% is massive and shows that Mourinho makes a difference. A manager is also vital in attracting certain players to clubs who wouldn't join otherwise.

And a lot of managers don't actually 'coach' that much. Fergie in his later years used young coaches like McClaren and Muelensteen to do the day to day, because he knew his methods were outdated. Martin O'Neill was the same with John Robertson doing the coaching. Celtic players used to only see O'Neill once a week on matchdays. Contrast with Wenger, whose methods were revolutionary in 1998 but they are now considered outdated, yet he never delegates day to day to anyone, likes to keep control of everything.

O'Neill & Robertson also did a great job at Villa and were inexplicably gotten rid of. He went to Sunderland afterwards and didn't have his right hand man Robertson with him and that didn't turn out too well.

The same thing has been said about the O'Neill and Keane partnership with the Irish team. You're right in your point about O'Neill not being on the training ground that much and I know for a fact it was the same with Keane when he was manager at Sunderland. I know a player who now plays in the lower divisions in England who went over from Ireland on trial to Sunderland and he said to me Keane was absent quite a bit from the training. At Leicester they had a great reputation for being effective at set pieces but Tony Cottee and Robbie Savage said they did little or no work on it. I look at this and wonder who's doing the hands on training with Ireland at the moment.

Wenger's methods are still the exact same, everything focused on the strength of his team with little consideration for the opposition. Sol Campbell and Jens Lehmann have spoken about this before. He very rarely compromises his tactics for the opposition and he's a firm believer in asserting to his players that if they play well enough, the end good result will come. It's an admirable policy where it makes for exciting games but it won't suffice if those players aren't up to the desired quality. For instance, it was grand with Henry, Viera, Bergkamp, Pires, Overmars, the great back 4, etc in the first decade of the club where this policy can be greatly applied. Not so now with Arsenal having inferior players to this previous era. Therein lies probably the biggest problem for Arsenal at this time and why I don't they will win the league ever again under Wenger or even put up a challenge for the Champions League.

 

[gooner]

A big day of football ahead.

If City win today(which I have doubts on), the title is theirs. No way could I see them slip up at Villa and West Ham at home afterwards.

I wonder will that protest with Newcastle go ahead with the walk-out from the stadium at the 69th minute in their game today.

 

[gooner]

Just watched the United game.

Poyet has done a brilliant job with Sunderland. Wes Brown was outstanding and they could have won it by more only for Giaccherini hitting the post and Borini the crossbar. United looked like a team who can't wait for the season to end.

Hopefully this quietens down the emotional nonsense of the campaign for Giggs to get the job.

Vincent Tan got his nice just rewards too.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Everton 2 - 3 Man C, ongoing

Dzeko really is a clown here. Get up man, and lets play ball ffs.

 

[gooner]

They made hard work of that. The time wasting was annoying and it wasn't the best of games to watch.

I can't see them slipping up from here. I know Aguero is injured and might be out for the last 2 games but getting Silva back is a huge plus where you can slot him in behind Dzeko from now on. They should have enough to get over the line.

That save from Hart at the start of the second half was crucial.

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

wenger staying next year its seems. made some comment in the post match interview to the effect of "you dont get rid of me so easily"

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Man United losing and Chelsea only getting a point. Pretty good weekend after all.

 

[Descender]

Atletico Madrid lose in Valencia against Levante.

Real Madrid to play the other Valencia team at home in an hour, if they win it's going to get very exciting.

 

[The Hitch]

mourinho whinging that Norwhich didn't attack

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

well it was good while it lasted. City's league now.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

 

[Swifty's Cakes]

Think I'll stick to rugby & cricket in future.

yeah, why dont you?

 

[kingjr]

Nah keep him here he's got a great sense of humour.

 

[gooner]

Agree with Neville and Carragher tonight, 49 goals conceded and the way the defence has played this season caught up with them tonight. I heard after the game Carragher say, in 17 games that Sakho and Skrtel have played together, they have only kept one clean sheet.

Unbelievable game though. A massive missed opportunity for Liverpool. Who knows when they'll get another opportunity like this again. United will probably have Van Gaal and are by the sound of things going to throw huge amounts of money to solve their problems. Chelsea should definitely have a top striker for next season and I can't see Man City having Demichelis at the back either. They will also probably get a bit more depth in midfield to cover Yaya and Fernandinho like when they tried to buy Fernando from Porto in January. Wenger is still talking the same nonsense as usual about only 2-3 players and that he wants to keep the squad more or less stable. He also getting in the excuses early for a lack of business saying he wants to see who's available first and that business won't start getting busy until after the World Cup. I heard all this before and it only further proves to me that Arsenal with Wenger still remaining there, will be out of the ball game as far as the Premiership is concerned. He's just using Arsenal as a platform for his policy with no accountability for it's continuous failure. He's knows this and that Arsenal are the only club in the world who would put up with this nonsense. Even Pepe Mel before we played West Brom on Sunday, said Wenger would have been sacked long ago in Spain. It won't happen but an FA Cup win and Wenger leaving would be the ideal scenario.

All the others will push on and I can see an even more competitive league next season which will make it even more harder for Liverpool to replicate this season. They will also have a Champions League campaign to deal with.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

well it was good while it lasted. City's league now.

Liverpool just took the foot off the gas, particularly the attacking part. They thought the win was dead cert with 20 minutes to go. A couple of years ago that model would have worked ok, but these days nobody just gives up.

Great comeback by Palace, the last 15 minutes was exciting stuff. Of course the consequence is heartbreaking as even Chelsea is now back with a chance.

Evil alternatives all over the place and its not because I like Liverpool much.

At least the final matches will be exciting at least on paper.

 

[The Hitch]

Where would city be without Djeko.

 

[del1962]

Phil Dowd is he a scouser?

 

[gooner]

I thought Atletico had the league wrapped up when Adrian nearly scored at the end. A pity the game against Barca clashes with the cup final. Probably record that and watch later. There's also the German Cup final to squeeze in next Saturday. A great day of football ahead.

United haven't wasted anytime trying to rebuild their squad as they just slapped a £27m bid in for Luke Shaw.

Here's to a summer of tiring transfer sagas.

 

[gooner]

Ashley Cole left out of the England squad for the World Cup. He wouldn't even allow Hodgson to put him on the standby squad when he found out.

And yet he was called this loyal England international over the years. The first bit of competition for his place comes his way and he spits his dummy out as if he's too good to be on standby.

England are better off without him and he's doesn't deserve to be there as he hasn't been playing on enough occasions.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

That´s what I love about soccer; Those shoot-outs. They should skip the (deadly boring) playing altogether, and just do that penalty kicks...