The Real Football Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

Leicester City was an amazing story, but I think it was pretty flukey, relying on uncovering two of the biggest diamonds in the rough in recent times (Mahrez and Kante), who then got transferred to Man City and Chelsea. Any smaller club that gets momentum can be kneecapped before they really have a chance to play together and win trophies because of the transfer system. Southhampton made it as high as 6th before losing Mane and Van Dijk to Liverpool. Ferguson's later teams perfected that art, poaching younger guys like Wayne Rooney, Ashley Young, and Antonio Valencia from smaller clubs who gladly took the transfer fees. They also showed the hierarchy within the hierarchy poaching Berbatov, Carrick, and Van Persie from 'big' teams like Arsenal and Spurs. Man City has basically replaced them at the top in both the table and transfer strategy, picking up young talent like Stones, Sterling, Walker. I think Arsenal wanted the Superleague because they realize that they have been a small club for a while, so want to cash in on their history before they become Everton.

Of course, Bayern has also done this with Lewandowski, Gnabry, Sule... etc. Look at the young talent that Dortmund has assembled. In the American franchise system, they would probably win a lot of titles with a core of Haaland, Sancho, Bellingham. Instead, they get raided as soon as they start to realize their potential. The one caveat to the whole comparison is that the transfer system is probably better for the players in terms of compensation. The looming threat of the big clubs pressures everyone to pay young superstars a more fair value. So there are trade-offs.

And now we're at a stage where Ajax - who are at the status of maybe not being a division-killer but certainly a very lopsided power trio at the top of Dutch football, and are one of the most decorated teams in European history - are one of those teams too. If anybody from outside the cartel becomes successful, unless they have enough money to simply wave off the biggest teams, as Manchester City did thanks to their almost unlimited cash injection, then the big teams immediately swoop in and peck them clean. That's one of the reasons I was so upset at the Tottenham comeback against Ajax two seasons ago. Because Ajax - despite the far richer history of the two in European competition - were a fairytale, and this was their one and only chance to make it with that team, and be the first team in 15 years to stick it to the big 5 (really big 4 as Ligue 1's last final at the time was 2004 too) because if they didn't make it to the final then, their team would be absolutely stripped bare of its big talents by the bigger money teams. And that's precisely what happened. Look at the 2004 Porto team. Mourinho was poached by Chelsea, and took Paulo Ferreira and Ricardo Carvalho with him. Deco went to Barcelona. Pedro Mendes went to Spurs. The team's backbone was stripped bare and Porto have never come close to the Champions' League final since. Every time a team from outside the cartel starts to look like putting a run together, the vultures start circling.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Agreed again. Seeing Ziyech and Van De Beek warming premier league benches instead of playing for Ajax is exactly the problem with the current competitive environment. That Ajax team and the Monaco squad with Fabinho, Bernardo Silva, and Mbappe were allowed one run and then dismantled.

 

[BlueRoads]

And now we're at a stage where Ajax - who are at the status of maybe not being a division-killer but certainly a very lopsided power trio at the top of Dutch football, and are one of the most decorated teams in European history - are one of those teams too. If anybody from outside the cartel becomes successful, unless they have enough money to simply wave off the biggest teams, as Manchester City did thanks to their almost unlimited cash injection, then the big teams immediately swoop in and peck them clean. That's one of the reasons I was so upset at the Tottenham comeback against Ajax two seasons ago. Because Ajax - despite the far richer history of the two in European competition - were a fairytale, and this was their one and only chance to make it with that team, and be the first team in 15 years to stick it to the big 5 (really big 4 as Ligue 1's last final at the time was 2004 too) because if they didn't make it to the final then, their team would be absolutely stripped bare of its big talents by the bigger money teams. And that's precisely what happened. Look at the 2004 Porto team. Mourinho was poached by Chelsea, and took Paulo Ferreira and Ricardo Carvalho with him. Deco went to Barcelona. Pedro Mendes went to Spurs. The team's backbone was stripped bare and Porto have never come close to the Champions' League final since. Every time a team from outside the cartel starts to look like putting a run together, the vultures start circling.

Side-note to Tottenham-Ajax: I remember I was so excited about that match, and then a friend of mine who I had a crush on asked me to watch the first leg together... I was already rather late and all the pubs in his area were quite filled because it was a nice day... he was going from pub to pub, looking for a nice place with a nice atmosphere and not too stuffed... I was thinking "let's just take any, I want to see that match", but he was not content and I didn't want to appear as weird and caring only about football... so in the end we went into a pub which didn't show the match at all. It was a nice evening, but it took me some time to get over the disappointment... still haven't seen it till this day.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Side-note to Tottenham-Ajax: I remember I was so excited about that match, and then a friend of mine who I had a crush on asked me to watch the first leg together... I was already rather late and all the pubs in his area were quite filled because it was a nice day... he was going from pub to pub, looking for a nice place with a nice atmosphere and not too stuffed... I was thinking "let's just take any, I want to see that match", but he was not content and I didn't want to appear as weird and caring only about football... so in the end we went into a pub which didn't show the match at all. It was a nice evening, but it took me some time to get over the disappointment... still haven't seen it till this day.

You were on a date with a guy, and the guy was the one who didn't want to watch the football match?

Love your wonderful weirdness Bluey.

 

[del1962]

Got to admit there is something great about seeing the fans back in the stadum for the FA Cup final

 

[Pinot's goat]

There is also something great about seeing Chelsea fans celebrate an offside goal in the last minute of cup final.

 

[Publiuszam]

So who is your money on to win the Euros?

 

[BlueRoads]

So who is your money on to win the Euros?

First favourite France. Second Belgium. Then Spain. Then England.
But I don't bet, so it's still all in my pocket.
France is the team that despite their incredible! players manages to play very dull, eh, pragmatic, so i'd put them first.
Belgium can do power-play. Spain has become tactically very flexible and precise. England... well, they do have some good, athletic players.

 

[Publiuszam]

First favourite France. Second Belgium. Then Spain. Then England.
But I don't bet, so it's still all in my pocket.
France is the team that despite their incredible! players manages to play very dull, eh, pragmatic, so i'd put them first.
Belgium can do power-play. Spain has become tactically very flexible and precise. England... well, they do have some good, athletic players.

No love for low's and his men?. Italy to do really well.

 

[BlueRoads]

No love for low's and his men?. Italy to do really well.

I hate Löw. He's the main reason I haven't cared about the German team at all for many years now.
I love Havertz, though, amazing player.
I just think Löw is tactically clueless, he's able to imitate but not find creative, fitting solutions on his own, also he's stubborn. Germany's defensive players are mostly not amazing, you would need a good tactical plan and the ability to make good in-game changes, and Löw isn't able to do so, so I think the good offensive players won't be enough. Besides they tried so many plans, players and tactics in the past years and the players aren't used to a certain position or task in the team, even less than in other national teams.

 

[Publiuszam]

I am very interested in what Hansi flick could at the international level. Your opinion on Löw is just like my opinion on German breads .....







don't kill me

 

[Red Rick]

That EL final penalty shootout was something else

 

[Põhja Konn]

I am very interested in what Hansi flick could at the international level. Your opinion on Löw is just like my opinion on German breads .....







don't kill me

Löw's best period with national team happened when Flick was his assistant.

 

[Põhja Konn]

That EL final penalty shootout was something else

Given the year he's been having, it just had to be De Gea whose miss proved decisive. Although Rulli (Villarreal GK) should already have saved Shaw's weak effort.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Given the year he's been having, it just had to be De Gea whose miss proved decisive. Although Rulli (Villarreal GK) should already have saved Shaw's weak effort.

Fun fact: De Gea hasn't saved a penalty in over 5 years, it's clearly not his strength.

 

[Publiuszam]

That is a crazy fact about De Gea.

 

[djpbaltimore]

I didn't know it was 0 for 35 until I saw a tweet earlier about De Gea. That is a lot of PKs! Related to the above predictions about the Euros... is he still first choice for Spain? England may even be able to win a PK shootout against him.

 

[Ivan_Basso_77]

First favourite France. Second Belgium. Then Spain. Then England.
But I don't bet, so it's still all in my pocket.
France is the team that despite their incredible! players manages to play very dull, eh, pragmatic, so i'd put them first.
Belgium can do power-play. Spain has become tactically very flexible and precise. England... well, they do have some good, athletic players.

The top favourites are definitely France, Belgium and Portugal. Italy, Spain, Germany and the Netherlands are pretenders. I don't understand why England is so hyped - WC 2018 was quite a fluke. They will most likely be eliminated before the semifinals.

 

[BlueRoads]

Two things: The top clubs are very uncreative in their search for managers this year, more than ever.

And: Will the Copa America indeed take place in Brazil? Anybody with up-to-date infos?

 

[Mayomaniac]

Looking at Italy right now, Mancini isn't bringing Kean, that's a surprise.
I didn't expect him to start every game, but given how well he did as a sub at PSG you'd expect him to get selected, it's not like Italy has a ton of players who are clearly better.

 

[sir fly]

Ukraine's Euro 2020 football kit provokes outrage in Russia

A shirt showing Russian-annexed Crimea is denounced as a "political provocation".

www.bbc.com

 

[BlueRoads]

Yesterday the German U21 won the EC again, coached by Stefan Kuntz, who I think led the U21 (different players) into 3 EC finals, winning two of them. At least this time it can't really be attributed to the players alone, they are mostly pretty unknowns, with some careers not going straight, often rejected by bigger clubs so far...
Still for years one of the main arguments for Löw was "but we don't have any other candidates, Klopp will not want the job..."

Löw better makes the semi-finals this time...

 

[Publiuszam]

Yesterday the German U21 won the EC again, coached by Stefan Kuntz, who I think led the U21 (different players) into 3 EC finals, winning two of them. At least this time it can't really be attributed to the players alone, they are mostly pretty unknowns, with some careers not going straight, often rejected by bigger clubs so far...
Still for years one of the main arguments for Löw was "but we don't have any other candidates, Klopp will not want the job..."

Löw better makes the semi-finals this time...

Do you want Klopp to take the Job before he gets old?

 

[BlueRoads]

Do you want Klopp to take the Job before he gets old?

Not a fan of Klopp either... that's just a personal thing, though, probably because everyone here has loved him ever since I was 16 and "he smiles too much". Well, grins.
I am happy Tuchel finally got his coronation, because he's a bit hated in Germany due to some bad (Dortmund connected) press. He's probably not a nice guy or easy to deal with, but the German coach I rate the highest. But I very much doubt he'd want to be national coach.
I have thought for quite a few years now that Kuntz would be perfect. But I'm just glad that Flick is taking over, can only get better.
(Now Löw is probably going to win and prove me totally wrong.)

 

[Nirvana]

Looking at Italy right now, Mancini isn't bringing Kean, that's a surprise.
I didn't expect him to start every game, but given how well he did as a sub at PSG you'd expect him to get selected, it's not like Italy has a ton of players who are clearly better.

IMHO is more a surprise he's bringing freaking Belotti that last scored an open play goal last winter and with Italy has scored only against fodder teams like Liechtenstein, Armenia, San Marino, i would have taken over him even some oldie like Quagliarella or Pellè. There are other weird choices but at least are explainable, for example Bernardeschi is crap with Juventus but has always done well with Italy, Belotti has literally no explaination and the fact that he had even to play often probably is also damaging Immobile that in this way is lacking continuity that's something really important for a supposed starter in a team that plays togheter only a dozen of times per year, just look at Insigne that always starts on the left how well he's doing recently.