Teams & Riders The Remco Evenepoel is the next Eddy Merckx thread

[Samamba]

Why do so many people here (and everywhere on the internet it seems) think it's normal for a rider to ask for a raise every year when he just signed a multiyear extension? If you sign a long term contract it must mean the team initially gave a ton of money (more than you deserve probably). It must've been a really good contract. It's cycling, if you sign a contract you should be planning on staying till the end of that contract. Otherwise just don't sign a contract till the end of time? Could've just signed a contract till 2024 for example yk and then he was free to negotiate with everyone he wants.

Man I hate how so many people are apparently trying to turn this sport into Football, as if that should be a standard for any sport.

Look at the difference between Girmay and De Lie for example. Both blow up this year and both sign an extension with their team. Difference? Girmay till the end of 26 and De Lie "only" till the end of 24. De Lie doesn't want to sign a long contract because he thinks he's going to be worth way more in 2 years time (his own words btw), he can then see what's best for him. Girmay on the other hand chooses the longterm option. Intermarché probably offered him more than he "deserves" right now but it also means that Girmay has to stick with them for a long time and they can build a team on him. If he starts winning classics left and rights well yeah he might not earn what he should get then, but that's the risk you take when you sign a longterm contract. If Girmay doesn't evolve in what Intermarché thinks he's going too, Girmay made a good choice, but Intermarché will be overpaying him. Again the risk of a longterm contract. Risks that everyone knows when they're signing one.

 

[Escarabajo]

I don't think Lefevre has the power here like some have said here. If the current contract is low, I am sure INEOS can even buy it. At the same time Lefevre has never been in this position IMHO. This is the first time that someone since Eddy Merkx is carrying the same tag price in his country. Sponsors will align in order to keep him. In that same order of thoughts Remco could probably re-negotiate amicably with the team. Lefevre cannot behave the same way as he has done in the past with other riders. This time is very different.

 

[Escarabajo]

Why do so many people here (and everywhere on the internet it seems) think it's normal for a rider to ask for a raise every year when he just signed a multiyear extension? If you sign a long term contract it must mean the team initially gave a ton of money (more than you deserve probably). It must've been a really good contract. It's cycling, if you sign a contract you should be planning on staying till the end of that contract. Otherwise just don't sign a contract till the end of time? Could've just signed a contract till 2024 for example yk and then he was free to negotiate with everyone he wants.

Man I hate how so many people are apparently trying to turn this sport into Football, as if that should be a standard for any sport.

It is not normal, you are right about that, but we are not talking about "a rider" here. And this is Belgium. Anybody else, you are right.

 

[Sciatic]

Why do so many people here (and everywhere on the internet it seems) think it's normal for a rider to ask for a raise every year when he just signed a multiyear extension? If you sign a long term contract it must mean the team initially gave a ton of money (more than you deserve probably). It must've been a really good contract. It's cycling, if you sign a contract you should be planning on staying till the end of that contract. Otherwise just don't sign a contract till the end of time? Could've just signed a contract till 2024 for example yk and then he was free to negotiate with everyone he wants.

Man I hate how so many people are apparently trying to turn this sport into Football, as if that should be a standard for any sport.

That’s definitely what we see here in American footbal and basketball (baseball has somewhat more restrictive legal clauses), to the extent that players with an existing contract will sit out games (or in rare cases even a season) even though they have an existing contract. The argument in the past has always been that athletes careers are extremely short, career ending injuries can happen at any time, so getting the most $ when a player has their highest market value makes sense. Of course, that no longer makes sense with the exorbitant size of NFL and NBA contracts, but maybe it’s still relevant for cyclists? But can’t imagine Remco isn’t set for life with his current contract.

 

[Samamba]

If the current contract is low

The current contract simply isn't low. Why would Evenepoel have agreed on a low contract till the end of 2026 as if the rich teams didn't already want him when he signed it? Pretty sure there are some huge bonusses in it for winning GTs and certain classics.

That’s definitely what we see here in American footbal and basketball (baseball has somewhat more restrictive legal clauses), to the extent that players with an existing contract will sit out games (or in rare cases even a season) even though they have an existing contract. The argument in the past has always been that athletes careers are extremely short, career ending injuries can happen at any time, so getting the most $ when a player has their highest market value makes sense. Of course, that no longer makes sense with the exorbitant size of NFL and NBA contracts, but maybe it’s still relevant for cyclists? But can’t imagine Remco isn’t set for life with his current contract.

Then don't sign a long contract? Like it's his own choice? Its himself and his managers that put him in this situation.
The fact that you can get a careerending injury is literally one of the reasons you should want a long contract, but then you risk being on a contract that undervalues you if you don't get that injury and you start winning everything. On the other end the team could be fuccked if he gets injured cause that would mean paying him top dollars while he's not even racing.

 

[jmdirt]

How many GTs and classics does he have to win unti he stops being the underdog?

He is no longer an underdog.

 

[Sciatic]

The current contract simply isn't low. Why would Evenepoel have agreed on a low contract till the end of 2026 as if the rich teams didn't already want him when he signed it? Pretty sure there are some huge bonusses in it for winning GTs and certain classics.



Then don't sign a long contract? Like it's his own choice? Its himself and his managers that put him in this situation.
The fact that you can get a careerending injury is literally one of the reasons you should want a long contract, but then you risk being on a contract that undervalues you if you don't get that injury and you start winning everything. On the other end the team could be fuccked if he gets injured cause that would mean paying him top dollars while he's not even racing.

Did you think I was advocating for athletes doing this?

 

[Samamba]

Did you think I was advocating for athletes doing this?

Might've misunderstood your post yes.

 

[Cookster15]

They would have to though with how strong he is in the TT ( especially Vinge)

I say Remco would be similar to Vinge. Remco is shorter so has less air to push. We already saw him ride everyone off his wheel in the mountains of the Vuelta. I think you are under estimating Remco. I also doubt Vinge will repeat what we saw in TdF stage 20.

 

[Red Rick]

Doubt they would have attacked like they did in July if they were attacking an in form Remco. Exceptionally difficult to attack him once he gets to the front and has full diesel tempo going

It's also very difficult to attack him if he reverse attacks first.

I'd give Evenepoel a very good chance to win the ITT though.

 

[Extinction]

It's also very difficult to attack him if he reverse attacks first.

I'd give Evenepoel a very good chance to win the ITT though.

Oh, come on, the Remco we shall see at the Tour (whenever that is) will be a calculated bulldozer, and if he is not, they clearly don't know what they are doing.

 

[Red Rick]

Oh, come on, the Remco we shall see at the Tour (whenever that is) will be a calculated bulldozer, and if he is not, they clearly don't know what they are doing.

I just don't see reason to insist he was at the level of Pogacar and Vingegaard when he was a net loser in mountain stages to Mas. The only good thing for Evenepoel would be that Jumbo was focused on Pogacar first.

 

[Sciatic]

Might've misunderstood your post yes.

It seems ridiculous to me for them to be seeking new contracts after recently signing a long-term one—it’s just become fairly normative in many big-$ sports.

 

[Escarabajo]

The current contract simply isn't low. Why would Evenepoel have agreed on a low contract till the end of 2026 as if the rich teams didn't already want him when he signed it? Pretty sure there are some huge bonusses in it for winning GTs and certain classics.

Maybe not low but below market value. Especially compared to what other team can pay for his services. That is not for us to decide, but the owner of such team. Whether it is fair or not, is another issue. But this is business and I have seem many sportsman taking advantage of this.

 

[Escarabajo]

I am a fan of the sport but I don't like to bet. I don't consider myself an expert, but I know my things just by being a fan for such a long time. But he was my number 1 favorite at the Vuelta and if not top 5 at the Worlds IMHO. The reason why he was not the main favorite at the worlds was because I questioned his recuperation from the Vuelta. I don't think he was the underdog. I think it was a similar situation at LBL. Maybe he hasn't convinced some fans in here, but he has won races this year being the favorite and not the underdog. When he took off at the Vuelta all the other riders tried to follow and they just simply couldn't follow. If you don't like him is another thing, but don't tell me he didn't win being the main or one of the main favorites in the races this year.

If he was riding the Tour this year he would have been a heavy underdog. If you think he will be an underdog next year riding the Tour, you shouldn't be betting.

 

[Volderke]

Some random reasons why Remco wont leave quickstep:

1. Lefevere guards him like he is his father;
2. His team mates and the entourage are worth a lot.
3. His bike. He seems to be the guy who will always ride a specialized.
4. Remco cant run away now and betray the Belgian sponsors who invest heavily to build a TDF team around him.

Ineos is 60x bigger than Soudal, and I believe you can buy a lot with money. But not for the coming 3-4 years.

 

[Oldermanish]

People in this thread don't seem to understand you can complain about an underwhelming race without it being a direct personal offense to the actual winner.
[/QU

Some random reasons why Remco wont leave quickstep:

1. Lefevere guards him like he is his father;
2. His team mates and the entourage are worth a lot.
3. His bike. He seems to be the guy who will always ride a specialized.
4. Remco cant run away now and betray the Belgian sponsors who invest heavily to build a TDF team around him.

Ineos is 60x bigger than Soudal, and I believe you can buy a lot with money. But not for the coming 3-4 years.

Item 4 needs to change to show sponsors who will invest heavily. That not being a done deal would be a problem for him, I'd think. The other items are valid reasons to remain....to a point. As much as many fans presume he is invincible there are a few riders out there that know how to win the Tour. RE can't do it solo.

 

[red_flanders]

I just don't see reason to insist he was at the level of Pogacar and Vingegaard when he was a net loser in mountain stages to Mas. The only good thing for Evenepoel would be that Jumbo was focused on Pogacar first.

Is that right? He gained 1:31 in the various TT's, and won by 2:02 over Mas. So he grabbed 31 seconds...where? I can't recall. I thought it was in the mountains. Where else did Mas lose time?

 

[peterfin]

I just don't see reason to insist he was at the level of Pogacar and Vingegaard when he was a net loser in mountain stages to Mas. The only good thing for Evenepoel would be that Jumbo was focused on Pogacar first.

His losses to Mas were in the first two mountain races after his crash. The time loss was also exagerated due to his decision to ride 10 km in front during that climb to 2500m instead of letting Roglic take up the chase. These details matter. During the first week his w/kg indicated that he would at least match Pogacar and Vingegaard. In any case, I don't see why he should lose minutes. He may lack the punch at the end after a stage with multiple long climbs and lose 20 sec but not minutes, at least not in the shape he had this August and September.

 

[Lequack]

So what will his salary be now after winning Vuelta and WC? Surely up there with the top earners?

 

[md1975]

I have also read Remco wants to be on the same team his whole career. And that money is less important than that. With QS being based a Belgian team, I think he might be serious. And as he racks up wins and sponsors, his pay will increase even if his team pay is not what he is worth. Something like this:

QS paying him 1mil a year. His worth is 2mil. So here he is being paid below his "value" However, sponsors such as Spealized are making the difference up. If they pay him 1mil to ride their bike and raise it to 2mil due to results. His pay is then 3mil. Which makes up the gap. Now, I could be 100% wrong with that example. But, it could be a legitimate situation.

 

[peterfin]

Is that right? He gained 1:31 in the various TT's, and won by 2:02 over Mas. So he grabbed 31 seconds...where? I can't recall. I thought it was in the mountains. Where else did Mas lose time?

Remco gained 2:20 during the 2 TT's. Mas got 7 boni seconds more than Remco and got 2 seconds extra during the sprint of the last mountain stage (as Remco was already celebrating) so we are talking about a 9 seconds advantage for Mas. Basically it comes down to Mas losing in Praeres but gaining this back and a bit more during the Sierra Nevada weekend.

 

[Andy schleck]

Remco gained 2:20 during the 2 TT's. Mas got 7 boni seconds more than Remco and got 2 seconds extra during the sprint of the last mountain stage (as Remco was already celebrating) so we are talking about a 9 seconds advantage for Mas. Basically it comes down to Mas losing in Praeres but gaining this back and a bit more during the Sierra Nevada weekend.

Climbing at the same level of Mas during entire vuelta, is not enough to not get dropped by vingegaard and pogacar. But he can get better, he's just 22 years old.

 

[red_flanders]

Remco gained 2:20 during the 2 TT's. Mas got 7 boni seconds more than Remco and got 2 seconds extra during the sprint of the last mountain stage (as Remco was already celebrating) so we are talking about a 9 seconds advantage for Mas. Basically it comes down to Mas losing in Praeres but gaining this back and a bit more during the Sierra Nevada weekend.

Ah, yes. I got the times both wrong on the TT's, thanks.

Climbing at the same level of Mas during entire vuelta, is not enough to not get dropped by vingegaard and pogacar. But he can get better, he's just 22 years old.

I agree that what he showed in the Vuelta isn't quite enough to stay with top form Pog and Vingo, but as an aside, I do think we saw a better Mas in this Vuelta than we've seen before in a GT. Without the crash I think Remco gains around a minute on Mas in the mountains. Also agree he'll likely get a fair bit better in the next few years.

 

[del1962]

There must be places in adverts for him to make some money, replcing a certain dutch rider