Tom Danielson

[hrotha]

Tell-alls by clean riders are even less common than tell-alls by former dopers*. I don't see the problem with having clean riders in the team, as long as they can perform. If they could perform even better on PEDs, but they won't take them, that's their problem.

*I can't think of any myself.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I think you get criticized for saying 100% dirty because even in the 90's it wasn't 100%.

I don't think anyone at the sharp end is clean, but everyone in the whole peloton? Extremely, extremely unlikely.

I cannot see the point in having a clean rider, when there are plenty will to dope. It much more results driven now than the 90s.

Not that it has anything to do with the extreme unlikelihood that 100% of the peloton are doped (absurd, really) but how exactly do you determine that the sport is more results-oriented now than in the 90's?

I cant think why anyone would continue to race against dopers. I would leave the sport rather than race cheats who have the system on their side.

I can think why teams would hire guys who would not dope as that throws up the risk that they tell on those who are doping.

I can think why teams would hire guys who would not dope as non cycling sponsors are hard to come by in the current climate and there are not enough big name cycling sponsors to fund the pro sport at current levels. Sponsors, i hazard to guess, don't give a fig how the win is achieved as long as their name is attracting the attention they paid. Business is amoral. Vroomen had no problem backing a former doper like Bjarne Riis or Vaughters. Bottom line he had a product to sell.

It is not as if dopers are not held up as heroes, Merckx, Coppi, Anquetil, Hinault, Fignon, Simpson and Pantani. It would appear every team is full of people who have done well due to doping (from lowly drivers to DS), so where does the rider who refuses to 'play the game' fit in such teams? I dont see it. A rider would be abused, derided, sneered at and ostracised for not doping. They would not last long. I dont see the current peloton as anti doping, if anything they are anti idiots like Ricco and Di Luca, but not anti doping. Apart from Pate, i have not seen tweets from current riders saying 'good riddance Danielson'. Vaughters talked of the 2008 'new generation' not seeing doping as the 'cool' thing to do. Well that was 7 years ago and those 'new' generation are now the experience patrons of the peloton. Their silence is deafening. Where is Cav's abuse of Danielson that he so willingly dished out at Ricco. Kittel has he said anything?

So i think, maybe a clean guy gets a shot but after a few months it will be obvious he is not 'playing the game' the same as the rest, so he eithers gets with a program or he goes backwards quickly or he leaves.

I, on one hand, would like to think that there are clean riders in the peloton, but, on the other hand, I would hope such talent would see the cesspit for what it is and have the dignity to say not for me this doping, i'll rejoin the real world.

Maybe they do it for a pro contract, because they love cycling, and lack better employment options. It seems clear that riding in the pack or as a (non-absurd) domestique is well within reason, physiologically. Why wouldn't you do it? If I were good enough to go pro clean, I certainly would have.

I wouldn't have been able to race with dopers and deal with losing to lesser talents. Sorry but I'd rather race with clean club riders than dirty pros.

Anyway, as you point out in your post, some guys clearly do go in clean, which makes your 100% statement non-applicable. That's all I'm trying to say, it just reduces the credibility of anything else you say which is credible. It's an outrageous position that does you no favors due to it being obviously untrue.

For a couple of months racing clean doesn't count in my opinion.

I really cant see teams taking on guys who wont 'join the club'.

 

[Kennf1]

From Twitter 1 hour ago:

@Vaughters Any news on Danielson's B Test yet JV? It's just that we're all interested to know if it's all just a big mix up.

(Reply by Vaughters): don't hold your breath.

 

[HelmutRoole]

From Twitter 1 hour ago:

@Vaughters Any news on Danielson's B Test yet JV? It's just that we're all interested to know if it's all just a big mix up.

(Reply by Vaughters): don't hold your breath.

They're hanging him out to dry already.

 

[hrotha]

You mean they should support him?

Hanging him out to dry is absolutely the right thing to do, whether they're serious about anti-doping or not.

 

[lacticacid]

Re:

Danny Pate enjoying himself! Really going to town on Tommy. Mid way through a Letterman style Top 10 Danielson excuses.

https://twitter.com/thedpate

Curious, does this mean Pate was clean?

 

[yespatterns]

Nah, probably just that they have a highly entertaining history. I assume we'll read about it someday.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re:

You mean they should support him?

Hanging him out to dry is absolutely the right thing to do, whether they're serious about anti-doping or not.

Well, Armstrong hung Landis out. That probably didn't go the way he thought it would.

I think JV knew Danielson was doping. He's angry and he should be. But he's not angry because Danielson was doping. Hell, the entire team's likely doping. He's angry because Danielson got caught.

Look, let's say you have a friend who causes trouble when he's drinking. He starts fights, causes property damage, gets arrested. You say he can't hold his liquor and you distance yourself from him. JV has to treat Danielson like somebody who can't hold their liquor even though he's not one of those guys. Barring a subpoena, he's stayed out of trouble up until now.

But still, they've got to hang him out to dry. Got to if they're going to keep up appearances. There's no honor amongst thieves. I do wonder though, if there's a courtesy call. Something like, "Tom, you know how this has to play out, so... it's been nice knowing you."

 

[Dear Wiggo]

JV's treatment of riders is poor at best. Tommy ain't getting any love now.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re: Re:

Danny Pate enjoying himself! Really going to town on Tommy. Mid way through a Letterman style Top 10 Danielson excuses.

https://twitter.com/thedpate

Curious, does this mean Pate was clean?

Pate? The world u23 TT champion from, eh, 2001?

I suppose he could be clean.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Danny Pate enjoying himself! Really going to town on Tommy. Mid way through a Letterman style Top 10 Danielson excuses.

https://twitter.com/thedpate

Curious, does this mean Pate was clean?

Pate? The world u23 TT champion from, eh, 2001?

I suppose he could be clean.

it is how you define clean.

recovery therapy?

doped a few times?

never show up in the urine?

has not flagged the bio passport?

never O2 vector technique?

 

[blackcat]

has Talansky come out yet?

 

[Irondan]

Re:

has Talansky come out yet?

Not against his teammate... Not on twitter.

 

[Irondan]

Re:

has Talansky come out yet?

Talansky doesn't mind hanging out with ex-dopers.

Andrew Talansky ‏@andrewtalansky Jan 24
From yesterday: halfway through an unreal "never been done before" loop with @LeviLeipheimer and @theJesseMoore!

 

[JackRabbitSlims]

Levi with hair

is it just me

or do those poc helmets
look like a giant toaster

on yah melon?

 

[MarkvW]

Guinea pigs.... Be interesting to see how their health holds up in the next 20 years.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

Guinea pigs.... Be interesting to see how their health holds up in the next 20 years.

More so for Levi. It will be kind of like asking a drug addict about their habit. You won't get a straight answer.

Clean riders are attacked, mostly their stories aren't so interesting. And they don't get very high up. The only thing left is making an interesting story about getting beaten by dopers. (Phil "the thrill" Gaimon's book)

Blackcat, you are so right. Define "clean."

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Re: Re:

Guinea pigs.... Be interesting to see how their health holds up in the next 20 years.

Blackcat, you are so right. Define "clean."

Good one. Bugno once got fingered for cafeine, he said it was from espresso's, anyone with half a brain knows it was from cafeine pills. That was 1993 1994 or so. Indurain the same, for salbutamol.

Now, in this clean era, we see clean Team Giant in their docu riders pulling up to the cars asking for cafeine pills, we see Froome with his inhaler of Salbutamol for 'a big effert'.

WTF is clean?

That aient clean, that is using non prohibited performance enhancing products, who used to be non - prohibited.

Strange world we live in.

 

[mrhender]

Re: Re:

Guinea pigs.... Be interesting to see how their health holds up in the next 20 years.

Blackcat, you are so right. Define "clean."

Good one. Bugno once got fingered for cafeine, he said it was from espresso's, anyone with half a brain knows it was from cafeine pills. That was 1993 1994 or so. Indurain the same, for salbutamol.

Now, in this clean era, we see clean Team Giant in their docu riders pulling up to the cars asking for cafeine pills, we see Froome with his inhaler of Salbutamol for 'a big effert'.

WTF is clean?

That aient clean, that is using non prohibited performance enhancing products, who used to be non - prohibited.

Strange world we live in.

I can answer that... I think..

Clean is everything else than getting busted by anti-doping authorities...

Plenty of maneruing space inside that..

Clean is the new mean.....

 

[nayr497]

Re:

Levi with hair

is it just me

or do those poc helmets
look like a giant toaster

on yah melon?

I didn't even recognize Eggtimer! That's the first time I've seen him not looking like a total dork. Odd that a dopey mustache makes him look less stupid than usual. That's saying something!

The POC helmets are awful. Haven't seen anyone look good in one. But, the S-Works helmets, which I've always loved, also look huge and ugly these days. Not sure what it is.

 

[HelmutRoole]

Re: Re:

Danny Pate enjoying himself! Really going to town on Tommy. Mid way through a Letterman style Top 10 Danielson excuses.

https://twitter.com/thedpate

Curious, does this mean Pate was clean?

Pate? The world u23 TT champion from, eh, 2001?

I suppose he could be clean.

it is how you define clean.

recovery therapy?

doped a few times?

never show up in the urine?

has not flagged the bio passport?

never O2 vector technique?

Reference Pate: doped a few times with top shelf substances. <~~ A guess based on his performances and team associations. If true it makes his treatment of Danielson hypocritical... and stupid, if Danielson writes a tell-all.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

My problem with Pate is the inexplicable elephant in his team that is making a mockery of anti-doping.

 

[TMJ]

Don't you hate it when these cheats always say: "Let's wait for the B test."

What they should be doing is admitting their guilt, but in reality they are just hoping against hope for some kind of loophole that will get them off.

 

[pmcg76]

Re: Re:

Danny Pate enjoying himself! Really going to town on Tommy. Mid way through a Letterman style Top 10 Danielson excuses.

https://twitter.com/thedpate

Curious, does this mean Pate was clean?

Pate? The world u23 TT champion from, eh, 2001?

I suppose he could be clean.

Ever wonder why a World U-23 Champion would stay riding in the US rather than go to the top league? Would seem unlikely that nobody would want him.

Pate rode with Saceo as a stagiare in 2000 and the experience seemed to have put the scares on him. Stories of house/team-mates walking around attahced to drips etc. He rode in the US for Prime Alliance and uber-ometra breaker team-mate Matt DeCanio listed Pate as one of his inspirations to stay clean.

Again, the story was JV had to convince him to give Europe a go with Slipstream and that he was pissed when they signed the Postal guys. Of course, these are all stories through the grapevine but they do accumulate to paint a picture.

 

[No_Balls]

Don't you hate it when these cheats always say: "Let's wait for the B test."

What they should be doing is admitting their guilt, but in reality they are just hoping against hope for some kind of loophole that will get them off.

Above all they've learnt to stick to the media routine. When the outlets writes their sensational headlines they know the response will be in two ways: the cynicals will have their say ("damn doper i knew it!") or the "open-minded", rather naive, wishful thinker ("Lets wait and see. Must be a perfect explanisation for this. Contamined meat?"). The latter are often in a overwhelming majority because the majority do not want to have any cheating rider of their own. As the publisher always will explain the details of positives the situation will calm down enough for not creating any drama as soon the b-sample gets revealed. By that time the doom of the rider will be far less then if he'd admitted to doping in the first place.