What a glorious day; Lance Armstrong stripped of titles

[The Sheep]

Simple. There is nothing yet for them to appeal.

Doesn't it have to appear before a judge? even if you plead guilty you still need to appear in court right?

 

[Turner29]

Doesn't it have to appear before a judge? even if you plead guilty you still need to appear in court right?

This is not a court. By not choosing arbitration, by USADA and WADA regulations, he accepts punishment.

 

[masking_agent]

For some reason I'm really looking forward to seeing Phil Liggett's response to this. He's gonna have to hit the bottle pretty hard to cope with this.

i was thinking the same thing.. baahahahaha

 

[Greisty]

Because they are pretty sharp cookies.

Also because of the conspiracy by Armstrong and cohorts to cover up the trafficking, encouraging, and administering. This will be the really interesting part when the truth comes into the public domain.

No offense, but you didn't really answer my question. Is there a rule or other legal mechanism that allows USADA to go farther back than 2004?

Again, I'm not trying to **** everybody off. I just want to understand this better.

 

[labratty]

No offense, but you didn't really answer my question. Is there a rule or other legal mechanism that allows USADA to go farther back than 2004?

Again, I'm not trying to **** everybody off. I just want to understand this better.

The short answer, if the offence within the 8 years is part of a continuous crime that has been actively been covered and concealed (a conspiracy, oooh) then on discovery the whole thing is treated as a single offense including the older bits. OK, not so short. The USADA argued this is the case, Lance and his minions spread FUD about it.

 

[BroDeal]

No offense, but you didn't really answer my question. Is there a rule or other legal mechanism that allows USADA to go farther back than 2004?

Again, I'm not trying to **** everybody off. I just want to understand this better.

There is a precedent for exceeding the statute of limitations when the athlete engaged in behavior that deceived doping authorities at the time. Basically, you should not be able to benefit from corrupting the system. A phony TUE that was backdated to excuse a doping positive would seem to qualify. Acts of witness intimidation may also qualify.

 

[Big Doopie]

Not particularly happy about todays news, never was a fan of Armstrong, but popular riders bring in much needed interest in the sport, and now the golden boy has been stripped of everything.

A good and bad day for cycling

with all due respect this makes no sense.

what about all the riders who didn't get the chance to be the popular riders because they either didn't dope or were not protected by the uci?

seriously, why do you think he was "popular" in the first place?

he was only popular because he won. he won by doping. if he didn't dope someone else would have won and been popular. ultimately, if the majority are clean, or the doping is curtailed enough, then the winner will also be popular.

there is nothing, nothing at all bad for cycling in that the greatest fraud in sports has finally been nailed.

what is bad is that the uci is still left standing and as long as they remain things will not get cleaned up and everyone in the business will fear speaking out. the uci is basically in charge of omerta.

 

[alkaseltzer01]

Aren't various tests done immediately after certain stages? You see riders all the time taken to doping control. How the heck do you cheat when you just go off your bike straight to peeing in a bottle or the needle.

What about all the others that "Passed" hundreds of tests?

 

[gjdavis60]

I think it's a bad day for cycling in the short term (in the mainstream media our sport does not look very good today), but will result in much better days for cycling in the future. It's like taking one step backwards to finally allow us to take two steps forward.

The sport (pro cycling) is a joke and had been mortally wounded long before the Armstrong verdict. This just brings a merciful and quick end to what was a long, painful descent into irrelevance. The sport needs to be cleaned down to the nap and rebuilt from scratch. Abolish the UCI and all of the other corrupt federations and organizations that have been using cycling as their own private pig sty.

At least run it like a business instead of the organized-crime-ridden racket it has become.

 

[ItalianJoe]

Bernard Hinault Reaction

I love Hinault. Hinault is the kind of champion I would love to see more of.

"Bernard Hinault, gave his very personal view: 'I don't f***ing care. It's his problem not mine. It's a problem that should have been solved 10 or 15 years ago and that wasn't.'"

 

[ItalianJoe]

For some reason, I have never seen this spin. It makes sense. Glad I retired from cycling before the 90s. It was bad enough in the 80s.

you're a bit off.

After the 1998 Festina bombshell, there was no level playing field in 1999. Most were too scared to dope after the 1998 explosion and according to insiders there was even a sort of consensus growing among the members of the peloton that 1999 should be clean.

Too bad the guy with the jellow jersey tested positive only 1 week after the start of the 1999 Tour. It happened to be a guy who had just survived cancer miraculously and who happened to have a decent media appeal that the UCI wanted to profit from. So lucky for this guy, the UCI had his *** covered.

The scam was so obvious that all sincere intentions to race clean among many members of the peloton at the time were squashed in one go. It was the signal that you can still dope and that the UCI endulges it.

So it was Lance and the UCI who brought doping back at the forefront in 1999 in a short but very crucial timeframe, post-festina, in which the climate was in fact perfect for cycling to take the clean road.

Therefore, if you insist on claiming a level playing field (which you seem to do), at the very least don't claim it for 1999.

Here's a brilliant Kimmage interview on which the above analysis is based:

 

[ebandit]

?

Aren't various tests done immediately after certain stages? You see riders all the time taken to doping control. How the heck do you cheat when you just go off your bike straight to peeing in a bottle or the needle.

What about all the others that "Passed" hundreds of tests?

Read this Thread and Other Clinic Threads re Armstrong ................and Learn

 

[Alpehue]

I'm fully aware of that, and im all for catching the dopers, but i am saying that there is no point in taking Armstrongs titles away,".....

Why not? Since he has been caught, you can't let his victories stand...he was caught so that he couldn't stand on those doped victories.

He burns, and it's a good burn. He's acted too much as untouchable, and the government always gets their man. It does not matter if #2-20 doped, you start at the top.

What has kill him the most is that his trusted teammates are the ones that would have made the whole story complete...that he was cheating, while he said he wasn't.

Oh, yeah...passed 100s of tests....but you only have to fail 1...and he did.

I'm happy for the sport and very happy he goes out a loser. LeMond was the best from these shores...not pharmstrong.

I'm all for punishing dopers, and would love to see the sport clean. But if justice has to happen, it should be fair. My problem with all of this is not the fact that he looses his titles. He cheated and got caught, my problem is that i don't like the "witch hunt" that has been going on against him individually, its the doping i dislike, not the person. I don't like Armstrong any less then Ulrich, or any other doper for that matter.

Large amounts of resources has been spend on punishing 1 rider, but for what good? he is not riding anymore, and awarding the win to number 2, that i am sure was just as doped makes no sense. in fact im sure the first 20 riders in the tour those years were doped. So when should you stop?

Lets instead accept that fact that doping was a big part of the sport back then, lets end the which hunt on old legends, and instead spend the resources on making the sport clean today.

 

[Paco_P]

To those saying this is a bad day for cycling - the worst thing that ever happened to cycling was Lance Armstrong.

QUOTE]

Thats not quite fair. You and I don't know the details on how doping worked in the late 90's/2000's. Its easy to look back now and say he was cheating but why pick on him? Why do people love Pantani yet loathe Armstrong? What about Tommy Simpson, a cult hero in the UK, but he doped - albeit with different chemicals to Lance & Co.

Pantani never pretended to be the greatest champion/survivor on the earth.

Armstrong was also among the biggest a******s sports has ever known.

No one made a bigger fuss of being clean when he wasn't. Compare Armstrong to Ullrich or Basso or any number of others with more talent who doped nearly as much, but behaved much better. This guy sold himself as the great comeback story, the man who went from near death to the unbeatable unstoppable champion, and it was all a fraud. Maybe Ullrich was a fraud in some sense, but not in the same sense.

 

[Benotti69]

Aren't various tests done immediately after certain stages? You see riders all the time taken to doping control. How the heck do you cheat when you just go off your bike straight to peeing in a bottle or the needle.

What about all the others that "Passed" hundreds of tests?

Marion Jones never failed a test

It helps to pass tests when you bribe those in charge of testing, namely UCI.

 

[Agravaine]

More Overdue than Glorious

but one thing at a time. It's good to see serious progress.

 

[benpounder]

His titles have not been stripped just yet.

The problem with stripping his titles is who does ASO give them to Ullrich? Basso? Beloki? Seems problematic to me, especially if one uses the standards USADA used.

 

[Benotti69]

The problem with stripping his titles is who does ASO give them to Ullrich? Basso? Beloki? Seems problematic to me, especially if one uses the standards USADA used.

Who got Bjarne Riis's TdF after he admitted doping.

No one.

No one will get the wins.

It is not an issue.

I doubt any rider will come forward demanding anything.

 

[burning]

Lets try to guess which is the highest clean rider in 1999-2005 TDF

My picks:

99 Heulot, 13th
00 Robin, 19th
01 Simon, 6th
02 Moncoutie, 13th
03 Sastre, 9th
04 Casar, 16th
05 Cadel, 8th

 

[benpounder]

Who got Bjarne Riis's TdF after he admitted doping.

No one.

I'm pointing out that if ASO uses USADA standards, then for a decade, no one won, only one or two finished second and only one or two finished third. Green and Polka Dot jerseys? Same problem.

If ASO acknowledges USADA standards, then they admit to allowing dopers to podium for years.

And if ASO strips LA, what are Giro and Vuelta organizers going to do? If USADA standards are adhered to, then we have over a decade where very few people podiumed at any GT (and major tours and Classics and semi-Classics for that matter).

Please note, I say this as someone who accepts the likelihood that Armstrong doped. I think virtually everyone doped from the early 90s to mid 2000s. I think all race organizers tried to turn a blind eye, even after the Festina affair. And I think it wasn't till Heras, Vino, Landis, Rico were conclusively busted that they finally decided to adhere to their own rules.

In other words, If they adopt USADA standards, they admit that that is, in fact, egg on their face, and that it has been there since last century.

 

[MaxVO2]

I for One will be Overjoyed to see Less of Pharmstrong's Smug Face

now Hoping that Nike / Oakley et al will Drop Him like a 'Hot Potato'

a WONDERFUL Day!

I agree...as well as Trek, Giro, Radioshack, ... But last I heard they're still backing him...shameful, disgraceful, pitiful.

Travis Tygart, USADA, WADA, Floyd, Tyler, Walsh, Andreus, the masseuse, THANK YOU for your courage against the Armstrong legal machine!!!

UCI, especially McQ, needs a cleaning.

 

[User Guide]

Lets try to guess which is the highest clean rider in 1999-2005 TDF

My picks:

99 Heulot, 13th
00 Robin, 19th
01 Simon, 6th
02 Moncoutie, 13th
03 Sastre, 9th
04 Casar, 16th
05 Cadel, 8th

Ferrari Cadel or is there another one?

 

[M Sport]

Lets try to guess which is the highest clean rider in 1999-2005 TDF

My picks:

<snip>
05 Cadel, 8th

How about

05 Sastre 21st

 

[egtalbot]

I'm all for punishing dopers, and would love to see the sport clean. But if justice has to happen, it should be fair. My problem with all of this is not the fact that he looses his titles. He cheated and got caught, my problem is that i don't like the "witch hunt" that has been going on against him individually, its the doping i dislike, not the person. I don't like Armstrong any less then Ulrich, or any other doper for that matter.

"Witch hunt"?
"fair"

What exactly was USADA supposed to do if they had large amounts of evidence (which currently we don't "know" for certain aside from their own claim)? Not move forward?

If Lance doped, this is the furthest thing from a witch hunt. If he doped, it's case of him absolutely taking advantage of all the holes in the process and corruption in the system, and USADA finally managing to nail him down. The process of catching an offender is often laborious and requires persistence. The only way this can be called a witch hunt is if you believe Lance didn't dope. I wouldn't dispute that his high profile is what got the justice department involved, but once they kicked things loose, it would have been criminal for USADA not to move forward if they had compelling evidence.

As for justice being fair, are you talking about the outcome or the process? What wasn't fair about what USADA did? I'll be the first to admit that giving his titles to the runner-ups would not be fair, but that's not something USADA should concern themselves with. It's not up to them.

It sucks that cycling is made to look so bad. It sucks that dopers may be awarded prizes due to this. It sucks that it's taken 13 years from the first positive test for this to happen, and it sure looks bad to someone who assumes LA is innocent. But what would be even worse than all that would have been not moving forward with a case under the current rules when USADA got the evidence. The fact that the outcome is far from perfect doesn't change that basic fact.

 

[marinoni]

I was just checking out the website of one of Canada's sports networks(TSN). In the comment section after the Armstrong story I'd say it's 85-15 in favor of Lance. Just sad.