Who has the best palmares: Valverde vs. Nibali

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Who has the best palmares?

  • Alejandro Valverde

    Votes: 50 34.0%
  • Vincenzo Nibali

    Votes: 97 66.0%

  • Total voters
    147
Well if you think that Tour is everything, I guess you're relatively new to cycling. I'll tell you a little secret, it's not! Not even close...
Yawn, if it were for me, the next one to lead over Fauniera first in a WT race is already a bigger legend than Froome. That doesn't mean I'm incapable of making distinctions between what enthusiasts regard as great achievements vs which palmares actually matter. And FW and the Tour just don't compair on any level whatsoever.
Listen, I like FW, fantastic race. I also think Itzulia is the most entertaining one week stage race of the year. That doesn't mean I'd put any weight into Contador winning the race 4 times when it comes to his palmares. It's just borderline irrelevant compared to him winning all three Grand Tours, the same way counting Valverdes "top 10s" is irrelevant compared to Nibali winning all 3.
 
But if Froome didn't crash (which was the premise of the game), he only lost a few seconds in stage 2.

He would, admittedly, probably have lost something on the cobbles without incidents, but 2013-2015 Froome was a difficult opponent.
Contador beat Froome head to head in every race they lined up in that year. Froome was never really at his peak in 2014 while Contador was at the end of his.
 
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Contador beat Froome head to head in every race they lined up in that year. Froome was never really at his peak in 2014 while Contador was at the end of his.
There was a MTF in the Dauphiné where they were pretty much equal but Froome took the win. After having led all the way since his brutal attack. Then of course it all went hay-wire on the final stage due to crashes and regular last-day-of-the-race shenanigans.
 
Given that it was immediately before the Tour and before their respective injuries, I'm going to say yes.
Given that it was immediately before the Tour and before their respective injuries, I'm going to say yes.
Contador was also clearly stronger in Cataluña. Granted that the Dauphine was before the Tour, but Froome in 2014 couldn’t stay upright, and considering that we saw them go head to head at la Vuelta on more or less equal footing, I think Contador was the strongest rider or 2014. In the Dauphine, he still couldn’t drop Contador and had a 8 second lead from the prologue before he crashed. The fact that Bertie finished 2nd in a prologue was a feat unto itself since it was never his strong point...

but I’m biased.
 
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IIRC Froome's main goal for the 2014 Dauphine was the points jersey, which he kept easily FOR THE ENTIRE RACE!
Contador dearly wanted yellow but totally cracked under the pressure of the final stage.
So it's not really fair to use that race as a reference point.
 
Contador was also clearly stronger in Cataluña. Granted that the Dauphine was before the Tour, but Froome in 2014 couldn’t stay upright, and considering that we saw them go head to head at la Vuelta on more or less equal footing, I think Contador was the strongest rider or 2014. In the Dauphine, he still couldn’t drop Contador and had a 8 second lead from the prologue before he crashed. The fact that Bertie finished 2nd in a prologue was a feat unto itself since it was never his strong point...

but I’m biased.
Peak Contador was definitely one of the best time trialists/prologues rider out there IMO.
 
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Given that it was immediately before the Tour and before their respective injuries, I'm going to say yes.
One is not like the other:
 
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One is not like the other:
Do you really think that proves that Contador would have added 10% before the Tour and been infinitely superior?

I think the tendencies changed when Sky took to the scene, and generally people were closer to their Tour level in the Dauphiné.

Maybe there were even other reasons for that, hint hint, wink wink, cough cough.
 
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Guy who won 0 Dauphines might have a bigger tendency to get better between Dauphine and Tour than the guy who won 3 Dauphines.

I dont think Netserk is claiming Froome couldnt win either, and I am not, but I think stating that he would absolutely win js ludocrous, and I think that position heavily overrates 2013-2015 Froome.

As for Nibali, Hautacam is surely up there in performance level, and La Toussuire 2015 should be enough evidence his best performances are certainly up there
 
Guy who won 0 Dauphines might have a bigger tendency to get better between Dauphine and Tour than the guy who won 3 Dauphines.

I dont think Netserk is claiming Froome couldnt win either, and I am not, but I think stating that he would absolutely win js ludocrous, and I think that position heavily overrates 2013-2015 Froome.

As for Nibali, Hautacam is surely up there in performance level, and La Toussuire 2015 should be enough evidence his best performances are certainly up there
You think Froome was at the absolute top of his powers on La Toussuire?
 
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So unlike the real Froome the hypothetical one is immune to have anything less tham a peak day every day

Then why not extend that to Nibali or Contador.

I will concede that tje real Vinnie and Bertie are weaker than the mythical Froomie in your head
I don't have any particular fondness for Froome, but I didn't see any rider being close to his level in the mountains in the Tours between 2012 and 2015 until he began faltering at the end of the final edition in that time span. Hence, I find it hard to believe that it would have been that much different in 2014, especially because he had shown a similar level at the prime warm-up race.
 
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Do you really think that proves that Contador would have added 10% before the Tour and been infinitely superior?

I think the tendencies changed when Sky took to the scene, and generally people were closer to their Tour level in the Dauphiné.

Maybe there were even other reasons for that, hint hint, wink wink, cough cough.
And regarding your last point, the changing times didn’t stop Astana from peaking beautifully for the 2015 Giro.
 
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The whole Froome vs. Contador 2014 argument is neither right or wrong for either side, and poses great hypotheticals however you want to look at it.

I wouldn't read that much into the Froome winning 3 Dauphne's and Contador 0 thing though. It's probably as much coincidence as anything: Alberto seemed in reasonable form there a number of times and came close to winning, and whilst not quite of the consistent high level of Valverde, Contador's non peak racing shape was also usually pretty good (like Froome).

Nibali tended to show greater scope for improvement from the few weeks before a GT to the start of the GT, and further improvement from week 1 to week 3 in a GT imo.
 
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I was wondering what the mainstream opinion is regarding these two cyclists. Keep in mind I'm not asking who you think is the best cyclist now, or who is the best overall rider. I'm merely asking who of the two you think has a better palmares.

First of we have Valverde:



Major wins:

Liége-Bastogne-Liége
: 2006, 2008, 2015.

La Flèche Wallone: 2006, 2014, 2015, 2016.

Vuelta a España: 2009

Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré: 2009, 2010

Volta a Catalunya: 2009

Clasica San Sebastian: 2008, 2014

He also won nine Vuelta stages, one Giro stage and four Tour stages.

Now on to Nibali:



Major wins:

Vuelta a España
: 2010

Giro d'Italia: 2013, 2016

Tour de France: 2014

Giro di Lombardia: 2015

Tirreno-Adriatico: 2012, 2013

He also won 1 Vuelta stage, 6 Giro stages and 5 Tour stages.
Nibali: Milano San Remo 2018!!!
 
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