JV reaches out to anonymous critic.

[Escarabajo]

buckwheat laid it on a little thick the last few days but only expressed his opinion. i followed the threads and believe i read them mostly unedited. there was little if anything i'd view as slanderous or libelous. saying you think a person's actions are spineless is quite innocent when you look at the attitude toward many other polarizing figures often mentioned here. going blue a few times was the only impropriety i could find and the f-word can be removed quite easily without delivering a death blow to the entire debate.

i'm actually at a loss as to why those threads were closed so quickly. many other threads veer off topic much further and remain open. i didn't totally agree with buckwheat but he merely expressed his view. making analogies to historical figures came off as melodramatic and cheesy but poor taste isn't a crime last i checked.

+1.

I agree with everything you said here.

 

[BotanyBay]

+1.

I agree with everything you said here.

Yeah, it's not like he committed a mortal sin such as criticizing Rachel Maddow.

 

[Barrus]

The relax thread was closed by me I think.

I always (and I do mean ALWAYS) find it hilarious when people come out with theories that moderators on this site have in some way been contacted by either the owners of the site - or even funnier, someone famous - and acted under some form of instructions. The reality is that we act as we see fit when presented with a situation and virtually never have any contact with management.

In this case, I saw this thread spring up at the same time as a number of other threads about JV and a lot of comments in other threads about the Armstrong Twitter episode and frankly on first read it looked like a pile of gibberish.


.


The above quotes don't merit a thread really. Your explanation here in this thread made me go back and read all the posts in that thread again and I have re-opened it. My apologies to those who had time invested in that thread.

Actually I closed it, mainly due to the fact that those two posts by him did not warrant a thread and the fact that that thread went right back into politics again

 

[auscyclefan94]

What is JV's forum name called?

 

[Ferminal]

Jv1973

...

 

[L'arriviste]

Because cycling is bigger than Riis, the fans won't abandon the sport if they get some honesty, and major corporations are still willing to pay $8-10MM for about $75MM worth of press hits.

Paul Kimmage said it very nicely the other day. Cycling is bigger than all of this, so people don't have to stick their heads in the sand anymore.

I'd rather wear clean clothes than dirty ones, but I still need to go outside and live, right?

Yes, I'm with you. What I meant when I said I wanted to know why it was different for Riis was this: if Riis can 'fess up and still run one of the biggest operations in cycling (whether clean or not), why is JV not able to be so open?

I suppose it must be the threat of action from JV's associates and contemporaries, many of whom are woven deep into the fabric of pro cycling interests. After all, a lot of Riis' colleagues and collaborators have already told their stories and he doesn't name anyone but himself, so the air is perhaps clearer for him.

However you look at it, it's not a simple matter.

 

[BotanyBay]

Yes, I'm with you. What I meant when I said I wanted to know why it was different for Riis was this: if Riis can 'fess up and still run one of the biggest operations in cycling (whether clean or not), why is JV not able to be so open?

I suppose it must be the threat of action from JV's associates and contemporaries, many of whom are woven deep into the fabric of pro cycling interests. After all, a lot of Riis' colleagues and collaborators have already told their stories and he doesn't name anyone but himself, so the air is perhaps clearer for him.

However you look at it, it's not a simple matter.

I think JV has chosen guaranteed security over self-respect. It's daunting to take that first step. Bill Stapleton (LA's attorney) has an intimidating game face. But if there was one person in pro cycling who has achieved a position of credibility that would stand-up against a million fanboys, JV would be that guy, and yet he still refuses to view himself any differently than a $20k/year former domestique.

I also think that JV refuses to recognize that if he DID speak-up today, he'd have a lot more people watching his back than Lance Armstrong. He's not giving the community enough credit.

If he wanted to walk away from Pro cycling and go be anonymous and tell everyone "it's my business, leave me alone", you know what? I'd say "I don't blame you buddy", but no, he has not only decided to remain in cycling, but he's decided to be a player. That means he needs to step-up. I'm totally serious.

If this means blowing the lid off a corruption ring, a Lance conspiracy, an Och-Weisel conspiracy, or even a true "Omerta-like" 100% rigged pro peloton conspiracy... or just "I doped, and here is how and who and when", then the time is now.

 

[BotanyBay]

Actually I closed it, mainly due to the fact that those two posts by him did not warrant a thread and the fact that that thread went right back into politics again

OK, how about a "JV, Man-up" thread? Would you close that? If so, why? I think it's time to discuss this. And to say this subject goes right back into politics again... Of course it does. Doping and politics are intertwined and inherently inseparable.

 

[Barrus]

OK, how about a "JV, Man-up" thread? Would you close that? If so, why? I think it's time to discuss this. And to say this subject goes right back into politics again... Of course it does. Doping and politics are intertwined and inherently inseparable.

Really, doping and Obama go hand in hand? Because that was the direction the thread went into.
Also your idea for a thread does not go against anything in theory, it all depends on the execution, the timing and the content more than anything. Your JV thread had absolutely no content and the exact wrong timing

 

[BotanyBay]

Really, doping and Obama go hand in hand? Because that was the direction the thread went into.
Also your idea for a thread does not go against anything in theory, it all depends on the execution, the timing and the content more than anything. Your JV thread had absolutely no content and the exact wrong timing

OK, my newest thread is more pointed and surgically directed. And if you think the timing is bad, you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

OK, how about a "JV, Man-up" thread? Would you close that? If so, why? I think it's time to discuss this. And to say this subject goes right back into politics again... Of course it does. Doping and politics are intertwined and inherently inseparable.

Yes, cycling and politics go hand in hand...... but in the other thread it was party politics and not 'cycling politics' that was being highlighted.

Remember many of us are not US citizens so we have little knowledge (and sometimes interest) in a politically charged thread.

 

[Anonymous]

OK, my newest thread is more pointed and surgically directed. And if you think the timing is bad, you couldn't be more wrong.

I think you have wasted valuable screen space in creating a new thread to be honest, what was wrong with this one. Or are you one of those who gets off with having their name as the thread creator?

 

[BotanyBay]

I think you have wasted valuable screen space in creating a new thread to be honest, what was wrong with this one. Or are you one of those who gets off with having their name as the thread creator?

Look, you want it gone, so be it. You have my blessing. I guess JV will crap when he's good and ready.

 

[python]

OK, my newest thread is more pointed and surgically directed. And if you think the timing is bad, you couldn't be more wrong.

your newest thread was a 100% troll and thankfully recognized as such. i hope you're banned soon for incessant baiting.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Wrote this, and then the thread vanished... Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes posting it here....

OK, forget the PM part. And I'm not jealous of Buckwheat. I am simply picking up the flag that he dropped. I've even spoken to Buckwheat myself.

If you go back and read what JV has actually said "on the record", there's really not that much to talk about. He refuses to answer most direct doping questions, yet in the same interviews he wants to be seen as an anti-doping force in the Pro Racing scene.

He needs to say a lot more, and I think he knows exactly what I mean.

I agree that he needs to do/say more to be viewed as an anti-doping force.

I prefer to just not give him much credibility in that vein.

Counting on the biopassport to rout doping from the sport is naive at best, and purposefully misleading at worst.

With his history on certain teams, he may be keeping tight-lipped until the sh*t has hit the fan in the US. I doubt LA is going to be the stoic captain that goes down with the ship alone. Who knows who is implicated, or how. I'm sure there's going to be a list of people coming out who we didn't expect. As soon as JV explicitly admits to doping, he's open to a lot more pointed and uncomfortable questions. Where, when, who, how, etc. etc.

"No comment" keeps it a bit more simple to control...

 

[BotanyBay]

your newest thread was a 100% troll and thankfully recognized as such. i hope you're banned soon for incessant baiting.

Whatever. JV is clearly an untouchable in this regard, and I know that now. We can talk about him, we can opine about him to a certain extent, but we can't issue a challenge to him. I'm new here and can now feel the temperature of the water.

It wasn't a troll. Someone else stated that I should have reached him directly. Wish I knew how to do that.

The way I saw it was, he came in here and engaged. By doing so, he either lowers himself or raises US to being on equal footing. I had no idea that I was messing with some deity by putting some strong words out there. Hey, I'm not the "grow a spine" guy, but I do think he needs to either grow a pair or provide us with at least some metaphorical reason for why he's been such a wuss on the topic all these years.

 

[buckwheat]

Really, doping and Obama go hand in hand? Because that was the direction the thread went into.
Also your idea for a thread does not go against anything in theory, it all depends on the execution, the timing and the content more than anything. Your JV thread had absolutely no content and the exact wrong timing

Issue is truth to power!

I think you're 23 years old or in your twenties? If so

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS OR EXPERIENCE TO WEIGH IN ON THIS.

If anyone wants an example of Truth to Power and has the patience to understand how politics at the highest levels affects peons like me. I will indulge them in the cafe.

This whole idea of me being MELODRAMATIC is uninformed, absurd, and disgusting.

My examples of truth to power can affect EVERY SINGLE PARTICIPANT ON THIS THREAD.


These issues do not get put in a neat little box.

Many here act as if JV is performing an essential service such as garbage collection or trucking.

He is either going to stand up, OR NOT.

No appeals to me for understanding have an affect on this issue.

The sport is under a cloud.

Botanybay is 100% correct that only people with access or personal knowledge of the truth can lay this to rest.

JV can't have it both ways.

 

[BotanyBay]

Wrote this, and then the thread vanished... Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes posting it here....

smoke monster paid a visit.

 

[tifosa]

JMBeaushrimp, I encountered the same vanishing thread problem! My response follows:

He needs to say a lot more, and I think he knows exactly what I mean.

The venue to "say a lot more" is not on a cycling forum--even this one. JV does have a professional obligation to answer via the legal process and to the governing bodies of cycling. I believe he will be compelled to speak the truth to those entities.

But he owes you nothing more, unless he made a legally binding promise to supply you with specific answers or information. Since JV is intelligent, and wise to the ways of cycling and its often wile-y fan base (my impression, at least), I doubt that he will ever provide you the unvarnished truth.

In life, as in cycling, what you want isn't always what you need--or what you get. I speak from 5 plus decades of living, and 3 plus decades of cycling.

Let the process play out. Life and cycling are both more interesting that way.

 

[BotanyBay]

Botanybay is 100% correct that only people with access or personal knowledge of the truth can lay this to rest.

JV can't have it both ways.

Sorry guys, I could still smell JV in the room here. He can't have it both ways, and I felt the need to play Sam Donaldson and belt-out a real zinger before he could board Marine-1. It's not for my own vanity.

(To you Brits, that's a reference to a ballsy US reporter who often had the guts to ask several Presidents a very tough question right before he boarded the helicopter)

 

[Anonymous]

Yaaaawn. Give me a break. You, like most who post in this sespool or "forum" (such as ThoughtforFood, The Hog, etc.) seem like self-important BS artists to me. What you post here doesn't matter. Sorry if I'm bursting your bubble. Any belief to the contrary is delusional. Get a life and get back to work.

Self reflection isn't your bag, huh? Keep trying little fella, you'll get the hang of logic sooner or later if you just put in the effort! Toodles Jr.

 

[Barrus]

Issue is truth to power!

I think you're 23 years old or in your twenties? If so

YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS OR EXPERIENCE TO WEIGH IN ON THIS.

If anyone wants an example of Truth to Power and has the patience to understand how politics at the highest levels affects peons like me. I will indulge them in the cafe.

This whole idea of me being MELODRAMATIC is uninformed, absurd, and disgusting.

My examples of truth to power can affect EVERY SINGLE PARTICIPANT ON THIS THREAD.


These issues do not get put in a neat little box.

Buckwheat, do you know me, do you know my history, do you know my knowledge? I guess not, so how can you ascertain to what I can and cannot weigh in? Again, high politics have no place on a cycling forum, with the exception of the politics thread in the cafe. SO keep it out of here

And Botany, that post right there by you, does indicate you do it for your own vanity

 

[BotanyBay]

JV does have a professional obligation to answer via the legal process and to the governing bodies of cycling. I believe he will be compelled to speak the truth to those entities.

I'd be inclined to agree with you, but as of this date, I have yet to see him called before any grand jury or legal proceeding. And that (in and of itself) makes me even more curious. One would assume that based on what he HAS been willing to say, that he'd be a very logical witness to call, eh?. His absence from these proceedings makes me want to hammer him for answers even more.

 

[Anonymous]

Whatever. JV is clearly an untouchable in this regard, and I know that now. We can talk about him, we can opine about him to a certain extent, but we can't issue a challenge to him. I'm new here and can now feel the temperature of the water.

He's not untouchable but i think a majority of people agree that there is no need for adittional countless threads to be opened.

Your other thread called for him to PM you. Now ive had a bit of a brainwave, and this, granted may seem a bit far out there initially, indeed, I had to think for some time before eventually deciding to post my idea on a public forum. But why, if you want him to pm you and discuss this matter with you, why dont you, and yes, this may seem crazy, oh that silly englishman with his stupid ideas... but why...


DONT YOU TRY PM'ING HIM instead of being a ****er.


And yes, I will probably get a violation for insulting another forum member, but technically, unless hes one of the few men in the world that dont, he is. Besides, it was worth it to get that off of my chest.

Sorry guys, I could still smell JV in the room here. He can't have it both ways, and I felt the need to play Sam Donaldson and belt-out a real zinger before he could board Marine-1. It's not for my own vanity.

(To you Brits, that's a reference to a ballsy US reporter who often had the guts to ask several Presidents a very tough question right before he boarded the helicopter)

Our version is Jeremy Paxman. Hes a ****er as well.

 

[buckwheat]

God help me with my internet addiction.

JMBeaushrimp, I encountered the same vanishing thread problem! My response follows:





The venue to "say a lot more" is not on a cycling forum--even this one. JV does have a professional obligation to answer via the legal process and to the governing bodies of cycling. I believe he will be compelled to speak the truth to those entities.

But he owes you nothing more, unless he made a legally binding promise to supply you with specific answers or information. Since JV is intelligent, and wise to the ways of cycling and its often wile-y fan base (my impression, at least), I doubt that he will ever provide you the unvarnished truth.

In life, as in cycling, what you want isn't always what you need--or what you get. I speak from 5 plus decades of living, and 3 plus decades of cycling.

Let the process play out. Life and cycling are both more interesting that way.

The forum for the truth? You're joking! We are the consumers of Pro Cycling and related products. What better forum to issue a short statement? The truth is an absolute defense, to well, everything!

He can't dial up cycling news and make an honest statement?

Compelled to tell the truth? With advanced interrogation techniques?

I thought Pro cycling was about simply getting to the line first, or riding around a country in the lowest elapsed time.

Re a person's age, experience is required but it doesn't necessarily follow that a person who is older has the requisite experience or has made a proper analysis.

You're overly complicating an exceedingly simple situation.