Lemond's body of evidence

[Benotti69]

.

...LeMond's desire then, as it is now, is to be the bestest America...

you are on an anti LeMond rant. LeMond is to date the most successful USA cyclist in history, as LA doped 7 TdFs, which anyone with a lick of sense can understand.

In case you forgot, LA was never a team player as he proved this years TdF.

 

[blutto]

well for one he was clear with roche in the 85 tour and held back on team orders to help ensure a hinault and french team victory....so yup...

...and may I add, a team who paying him big bucks at the time...and not to put a too fine a point on it but he was an employee...and being the classy guy that he is he hasn't stopped whining about it and kept the money...

Cheers

blutto

 

[buckwheat]

My Dearest Mr.Wheat,

...the basic question that is asked in the study of history is called the 4W's...Who says What about Whom and Why...

...thank you so very much for that reply because it encapsulates everything that I grown to love about you...you are truly a gentleman and a scholar...

...have a wonderful day...

Cheers

blutto

Much obliged. Hey, I'm a big LeMond fan. He got me into riding. Real natural talent. Very nice guy who's surmounted some difficulties along the way.

 

[flicker]

...oh come on!...I just happen to have had several friends who were on that hill that day and then saw the tv coverage after...and in their opinion Boyer was going for the win...in fact he was gone until "somebody" dragged the remaining field up to him...

...and by the way how is hauling Saronni/Kelly etc up to the break trying to win the title...Saronni put ten bike lengths into LeMond by the finish line... if he was playing it straight, (ie going for the win) that is one of the stupidest moves I've ever seen....however it does make sense if his primary intention was to deny Boyer the win....

...LeMond's desire then, as it is now, is to be the bestest American...whether it was Boyer then or Armstrong now he needs to be the much more bestest American cyclist ever and as in 82 its whatever it takes...in 82 he destroyed his own chance to deny Boyer...gawd knows what he is capable of now...because we know he has the money....so what is the name of his PR firm?....

Cheers

blutto

Although I do not know Greg personally, I get little snippets from his friends/ex-teamates/promoters about him and Bob LeMond.
Some good some not so good, of questionable character. As far as documents I really do not know but from the results of his and Bob LeMonds actions they seem like chistlers which are a type of people I refrain from association with. LeMond has as many questionable associates as Armstrong so if I were using LeMonds information I would weigh heavily upon LeMonds past. I am however not a judge, investigator or prosecuter.

 

[redtreviso]

Although I do not know Greg personally, I get little snippets from his friends/ex-teamates/promoters about him and Bob LeMond.
Some good some not so good, of questionable character. As far as documents I really do not know but from the results of his and Bob LeMonds actions they seem like chistlers which are a type of people I refrain from association with. LeMond has as many questionable associates as Armstrong so if I were using LeMonds information I would weigh heavily upon LeMonds past. I am however not a judge, investigator or prosecuter.

But if Mathew is busy you'd-----

 

[blutto]

No, he loves child molesters.

....yeah know, when I first saw your response, I have to admit, I was a bit flumoxed...one does expect a response but out of the myriad of possible responses the choice of that one did kinda surprised me...then I remembered a line from a song and it kinda began to make sense...

.....the line is " ...I have nothing to hide but me and my monkey..."....so my question to you is....what name do you call your monkey and why did it pick that particular time to come out and play....

....and look, I've heard you guys talk in code and all and I really hope the your response was not a special "message" ....because if you want to send a come hither kind of message to anyone you might want to give Mr Wheat a call as he definitely seems on your "wavelength"...

Cheers

blutto

 

[flicker]

It's OK Blutto. I am a native speaker of Dine from Window Rock Arizona. I will crack their code for you free of charge.

 

[JayZee]

Greg does say somewhere that if he had been younger and just beginning his career, he isn't sure he wouldn't have doped. I find that brutal honesty remarkable and refreshing. Someone here opined that even without the peloton on EPO, Lemond might not have been competitive much beyond 1990. He probably never came back 100% from the hunting accident.

None of which is to say he shouldn't speak up against doping in general and LA in particular.

Totally agree. I hope Greg keeps speaking out against doping. I do perhaps wish he would go about it differently than he does, but I think that is just who he is. Doping sucks. It is an absolute shame that in the recent past (and probably currently to some degree) most, if not all, cyclist that wanted to compete at the highest level had to resort to some form of doping. A kid should never be faced with that dilemma.

 

[blutto]

It's OK Blutto. I am a native speaker of Dine from Window Rock Arizona. I will crack their code for you free of charge.

...thank you for your offer but I don't think I really want to go where that "wavelength" is being projected from....way too dark...

...but in related news...my ears perked up when you mentioned the ex-teamates/friends/ promoters...you may with that knowledge help me with a story...very early in my racing career I was in a race with LeMond...he had just won the Jnr. Worlds and he was flying...he simply destroyed the field....but he also acted like a sanctimonious *** and by the end of the day left a sour taste in everyone's mouth...and believe you me we all started the day as huge fans so appreciative that he had blessed our race with his presence....

...upon telling this story to a friend later he recounted this story...LeMond was so strong he could pretty well destroy any local race he was in...but that wasn't good enough for him so to further impress the local "trash" he would tell them when he was going to attack and dare them to hold his wheel...at the time I thought the story a bit far-fetched but I subsequently heard several similar stories...the story was never absolutely "proven" but it was not too far removed from my personal experience...had you heard about that kinda behaviour...

...Dine...that's very cool...in other more pleasant circumstances I'll take you up on your offer ....if you don't mind....

Cheers

blutto

 

[Race Radio]

...thank you for your offer but I don't think I really want to go where that "wavelength" is being projected from....way too dark...

...but in related news...my ears perked up when you mentioned the ex-teamates/friends/ promoters...you may with that knowledge help me with a story...very early in my racing career I was in a race with LeMond...he had just won the Jnr. Worlds and he was flying...he simply destroyed the field....but he also acted like a sanctimonious *** and by the end of the day left a sour taste in everyone's mouth...and believe you me we all started the day as huge fans so appreciative that he had blessed our race with his presence....

...upon telling this story to a friend later he recounted this story...LeMond was so strong he could pretty well destroy any local race he was in...but that wasn't good enough for him so to further impress the local "trash" he would tell them when he was going to attack and dare them to hold his wheel...at the time I thought the story a bit far-fetched but I subsequently heard several similar stories...the story was never absolutely "proven" but it was not too far removed from my personal experience...had you heard about that kinda behaviour...

...Dine...that's very cool...in other more pleasant circumstances I'll take you up on your offer ....if you don't mind....

Cheers

blutto

Ahhh, Greg beat you 30 years ago and you still hold the grudge.

Time to move on.....

 

[Hugh Januss]

....yeah know, when I first saw your response, I have to admit, I was a bit flumoxed...one does expect a response but out of the myriad of possible responses the choice of that one did kinda surprised me...then I remembered a line from a song and it kinda began to make sense...

.....the line is " ...I have nothing to hide but me and my monkey..."....so my question to you is....what name do you call your monkey and why did it pick that particular time to come out and play....

....and look, I've heard you guys talk in code and all and I really hope the your response was not a special "message" ....because if you want to send a come hither kind of message to anyone you might want to give Mr Wheat a call as he definitely seems on your "wavelength"...

Cheers

blutto

OK let me try to use little words and not presume that I will not have to explain in detail.
Lance's charity (presumably) fights cancer.
Greg's fights child molestation.
Paul Kimmage when he questioned Lance was then accused of "loving cancer".
Mr. Wheat's response was a play on that towards a "Greg hater", except the expression is "why do you love............ not "why do you like........." . I was merely correcting him. Sorry if I have disapointed you or left you feeling unwanted, but that is all there was to it.

First time I saw Greg in a race was Holy Hill at Superweek in Milwaukee. Five out of 8 laps in this scrawny kid riding next to me asked if there was a break, I informed him that there was, about 12+ strong and about 5 minutes up. I further stated that I didn't think they were coming back given the pace in the field and that I was planning to call it a day at the finish line and save it for tomorrow. He thanked me. At the start-finish my friends told me the lead was still about 5 minutes so I packed it, and went to the car to clean up. I wandered back to the finish as the break came through for the bell, same guys a few less, but they had been joined by this kid from Reno (so they said), who had bridged the gap in 1/2 a lap. So I decided to stay and watch the finish. Greg finished on his own almost a minute clear of the next guy, and was then DQ'd for getting a waterbottle outside of the feed zone. A 17 year old on jr. gears on a 100 degree day. He seemed like a nice enough kid to me.

 

[buckwheat]

OK let me try to use little words and not presume that I will not have to explain in detail.
Lance's charity (presumably) fights cancer.
Greg's fights child molestation.
Paul Kimmage when he questioned Lance was then accused of "loving cancer".
Mr. Wheat's response was a play on that towards a "Greg hater", except the expression is "why do you love............ not "why do you like........." . I was merely correcting him. Sorry if I have disapointed you or left you feeling unwanted, but that is all there was to it.

First time I saw Greg in a race was Holy Hill at Superweek in Milwaukee. Five out of 8 laps in this scrawny kid riding next to me asked if there was a break, I informed him that there was, about 12+ strong and about 5 minutes up. I further stated that I didn't think they were coming back given the pace in the field and that I was planning to call it a day at the finish line and save it for tomorrow. He thanked me. At the start-finish my friends told me the lead was still about 5 minutes so I packed it, and went to the car to clean up. I wandered back to the finish as the break came through for the bell, same guys a few less, but they had been joined by this kid from Reno (so they said), who had bridged the gap in 1/2 a lap. So I decided to stay and watch the finish. Greg finished on his own almost a minute clear of the next guy, and was then DQ'd for getting a waterbottle outside of the feed zone. A 17 year old on jr. gears on a 100 degree day. He seemed like a nice enough kid to me.

Sorry for getting you into difficulty.

Nice anecdote btw.

Did he have EPO in the waterbottle?

 

[buckwheat]

...thank you for your offer but I don't think I really want to go where that "wavelength" is being projected from....way too dark...

...but in related news...my ears perked up when you mentioned the ex-teamates/friends/ promoters...you may with that knowledge help me with a story...very early in my racing career I was in a race with LeMond...he had just won the Jnr. Worlds and he was flying...he simply destroyed the field....but he also acted like a sanctimonious *** and by the end of the day left a sour taste in everyone's mouth...and believe you me we all started the day as huge fans so appreciative that he had blessed our race with his presence....

...upon telling this story to a friend later he recounted this story...LeMond was so strong he could pretty well destroy any local race he was in...but that wasn't good enough for him so to further impress the local"trash" he would tell them when he was going to attack and dare them to hold his wheel...at the time I thought the story a bit far-fetched but I subsequently heard several similar stories...the story was never absolutely "proven" but it was not too far removed from my personal experience...had you heard about that kinda behaviour...

...Dine...that's very cool...in other more pleasant circumstances I'll take you up on your offer ....if you don't mind....

Cheers

blutto

I guess your ahh, "friend," couldn't hold his wheel.

 

[ChrisE]

Sorry for getting you into difficulty.

Nice anecdote btw.

Did he have EPO in the waterbottle?

I don't think it does any good if you drink it. Plus, I don't think it was around until the late 80's. Regards.

 

[Wallace]

This is a weird thread. The gist of it seems to be that when LeMond was a young and insanely talented cyclist, he might have been kind of arrogant and ambitious. Wow. Now there's a totally world-shattering insight. You expect a kid who gets into a sport and realizes from almost the first race he enters that he can easily demolish a field of experienced riders to be totally modest and, what, apologetic about it?

I remember when Greg entered the sport, and the rapidity with which everyone knew that there was this kid who was a total, once-in-a-lifetime phenomenon from Nevada (when Lance started, everyone said "there's this new guy from Texas: he's strong but an unbelievable a$$hole. But that's a different topic).

The simple fact is that champions are champions because they combine natural ability with a huge drive to kick everyone's a$$. As my father once told me, "jocks are jerks." So what?

 

[woodburn]

...well we have admittedly seen a great deal of tar stick to one side of that dime...but please the other side is not really so shiny and clean...

...in point of fact Mr LeMond is a cheat ( granted it is in the biblical sense but we are talking cheaters are we not )( see...Greg LeMond vs. The World...Men's Journal ...which incidently if you read will show our boy is pretty "damaged goods"...he has had a very sad life it seems...really too bad because he was an amazing talent... )

...and there has been a fair bit of "bending of truth" in Mr LeMond's career...the accusations levelled at Moreno Argentin immediately after the 85 World Championships are a good example ( though to be fair he did later recant the accusations but this after maintaining them for the better part of a year )...and of course there is the changing story surrounding his leaving the sport...I believe it went from busted mitochondria to the "I couldn't compete because everyone but me was using drugs" schtick ( which is, come to think of it, kinda a variation of the "they are all against me" theme that keeps cropping up thru-out his career)...

...and we really won't go into detail into his wretched performances as a team-mate but his work at Goodwood in 82 is worth a look to get a flavour of the man...

Cheers

blutto

Nothing like a little reality to splash cold water on your theory. Boyer was never going to win. Everyone knew it.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2005/05/news/inside-cycling-with-john-wilcockson-the-controversial-1982-worlds_8043

 

[blutto]

Ahhh, Greg beat you 30 years ago and you still hold the grudge.

Time to move on.....

...been beaten like a drum for a great part of my "career"...no problem with that...treated like trash...that I do have a problem with....and I wasn't the only one that left that race feeling the same way...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

I guess your ahh, "friend," couldn't hold his wheel.

...nope...but then that was not the point was it...

Cheers

blutto

 

[blutto]

This is a weird thread. The gist of it seems to be that when LeMond was a young and insanely talented cyclist, he might have been kind of arrogant and ambitious. Wow. Now there's a totally world-shattering insight. You expect a kid who gets into a sport and realizes from almost the first race he enters that he can easily demolish a field of experienced riders to be totally modest and, what, apologetic about it?

I remember when Greg entered the sport, and the rapidity with which everyone knew that there was this kid who was a total, once-in-a-lifetime phenomenon from Nevada (when Lance started, everyone said "there's this new guy from Texas: he's strong but an unbelievable a$$hole. But that's a different topic).

The simple fact is that champions are champions because they combine natural ability with a huge drive to kick everyone's a$$. As my father once told me, "jocks are jerks." So what?

...so what?...because if the "evidence" is to be considered valid it has to come from a believable source....are jerks to be trusted?...good question....

Cheers

blutto

 

[Dr. Maserati]

...so what?...because if the "evidence" is to be considered valid it has to come from a believable source....are jerks to be trusted?...good question....

Cheers

blutto

I think a better question is the one you asked earlier, what is the name of LeMonds PR firm.

Or is this going to be like the time you said Greg had his spleen removed - when he didn't.

So 'Blutto' what is the name of LeMonds PR firm?

 

[buckwheat]

...nope...but then that was not the point was it...

Cheers

blutto

Not your point. Your point is that LeMond is a jerk. My point is that "your friends" jealousy of LeMond colors his opinion of him.

 

[dbrower]

Not your point. Your point is that LeMond is a jerk. My point is that "your friends" jealousy of LeMond colors his opinion of him.

Yada yada.

Seems to me quite likely that everyone subject of or involved in the discussion is a jerk - LeMond, Blutto, Blutto's buddy, ChrisE, Buckwheat, others, and now me.

What does jerkdom have to do with anything? Is trying to determine who is the biggest jerk a meaningful use of time?

-dB

 

[flicker]

...thank you for your offer but I don't think I really want to go where that "wavelength" is being projected from....way too dark...

...but in related news...my ears perked up when you mentioned the ex-teamates/friends/ promoters...you may with that knowledge help me with a story...very early in my racing career I was in a race with LeMond...he had just won the Jnr. Worlds and he was flying...he simply destroyed the field....but he also acted like a sanctimonious *** and by the end of the day left a sour taste in everyone's mouth...and believe you me we all started the day as huge fans so appreciative that he had blessed our race with his presence....

...upon telling this story to a friend later he recounted this story...LeMond was so strong he could pretty well destroy any local race he was in...but that wasn't good enough for him so to further impress the local "trash" he would tell them when he was going to attack and dare them to hold his wheel...at the time I thought the story a bit far-fetched but I subsequently heard several similar stories...the story was never absolutely "proven" but it was not too far removed from my personal experience...had you heard about that kinda behaviour...

...Dine...that's very cool...in other more pleasant circumstances I'll take you up on your offer ....if you don't mind....

Cheers

blutto

The reality of it is I raced against Greg.and he handed my blank to me on a platter. I knew how good we were in Nor-Cal and I knew Greg was Tour bound. No surprises for me there. I dropped out of cycling and only started riding again in 2005.

However after reading this blog I started asking friends about Greg. Not Wikipedia, not his training books, strictly people who know or have known him.
I just do not like what I hear about him. I do not want to slam him. I feel pity for Greg, he has put his life out there for all the bloggers and in velo-news, cycling news pro- cycling etc. I want the best for Greg, and peace for him and his family. I also would like for him to begin to think.

 

[BikeCentric]

I also would like for him to begin to think.

Physician, heal thyself.

Or, if I wanted to bring down the biblical brimstone on your a$$, how about some of this:

"how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me cast out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote that is in thy brother's eye."

 

[flicker]

Physician, heal thyself.

Or, if I wanted to bring down the biblical brimstone on your a$$, how about some of this:

"how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me cast out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote that is in thy brother's eye."

Sorry as you know B.C.the bible better than I carry on Greg LeMond. Do not think but live your dreams. I will buy you a book of Bushisms and Pallisms and you can use them in your next deposition. As well as a copy of the Old Testament.