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[karlboss]

Some people just don't get it!

you, he's trolling and knew exactly what he posted was nonsense. He could have also pointed out Horner beat Valverde in the Paris Nice prologue, or at the 2006 Tour de romandie, more competitive results.

 

[maltiv]

You guys crack me up...
The stench is in the nose of the beholder....

C'mon - this course was very well suited to Horner,

and he was only one of a handful of riders who dug deep
into their suitcase's of courage today,

All that said - HORNER was awesome today.

Oh and BTW....Horner kicked Piti's keester in the 2007 TdF Albi TT

1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 1.06.34 (48.661 km/h)
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Predictor - Lotto 1.14
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 1.39
4 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Astana 1.44
5 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Cofidis - Le Crédit 2.14
6 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel Team 2.16
7 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Discovery Channel Team 2.18
.
11 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 2.55
. 3.23
20 David Millar (GBr) Saunier Duval - Prodir 3.27
.
30 Chris Horner (USA) Predictor - Lotto 4.21
.
.
36 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC 4.57
.
47 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 6.08
.
49 Bert Grabsch (Ger) T-Mobile Team 6.12
.
66 Pierrick Fedrigo (Fra) Bouygues Telecom 7.24
.
.

107 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team CSC 8.45

Frank Schleck also completely smashed Valverde and Cancellara that day, thus he is clearly a superior TT'er!

Your trolling is a bit too obvious. You're trying too hard.

 

[Race Radio]

Voigt, Freire and Millar have all been consistently successful throughout their careers - even Fedrigo has won at Avenir, Dauphine and the Tour. Voigt and Millar have never been slouches at the TT either.

It's amusing to me that Horner - a domestic racer with precious little experience of the upper echelons of pro racing before 2005 - then had his previous best season with Saunier Duval and now, at 38, has discovered form that men 10 years younger would envy. Amazing what shutting your mouth and taking the money and whatever else will get you (and, as a single dad, it's all about the money for Horner). Whichever way you sniff it, this win stinks.

I have to disagree. Chris has had perhaps the unluckiest career of any Pro. Some if it caused by his own challenges fitting in with the European system. The guy has always been an insane talent and this win does not surprise me in the least.

At SD he had to beg his way back into the scene. This meant he had to take a huge pay cut and work for others. When h was allowed to hit out on his own the results were there, Top 5 at Tour de Swiss and a stage win is a good example.

certainly Chris does what is needed to perform at his job but I am not surprised that he won.

 

[Polish]

Frank Schleck also completely smashed Valverde and Cancellara that day, thus he is clearly a superior TT'er!

Your trolling is a bit too obvious. You're trying too hard.

Yes, on that day Frank Schleck WAS a superior tt'er.

Well, superior to valverde and spartacus...but not superior to Horner.
Horner beat Schleck that day too

 

[karlboss]

I have to disagree. Chris has had perhaps the unluckiest career of any Pro. Some if it caused by his own challenges fitting in with the European system. The guy has always been an insane talent and this win does not surprise me in the least.

At SD he had to beg his way back into the scene. This meant he had to take a huge pay cut and work for others. When h was allowed to hit out on his own the results were there, Top 5 at Tour de Swiss and a stage win is a good example.

certainly Chris does what is needed to perform at his job but I am not surprised that he won.

Why was that?

 

[kurtinsc]

Just a question... but who other then Horner and maybe Valverde was peaking for this event?

Schleck is well behind schedule preparing for the Ardennes races (aparently)... or perhaps I'd put him there. Maybe Intxausti? Rodriguez? Casar?

How much would that matter?

Horner is going into domestique mode most likely after the Ardennes. Maybe he'll come out for Lombardia... but that's it. I'm sure this time of year is his major focus. Could that be enough to explain him out-TTing a Kloden or Sanchez at this time of year?

 

[Berzin]

you, he's trolling and knew exactly what he posted was nonsense. He could have also pointed out Horner beat Valverde in the Paris Nice prologue, or at the 2006 Tour de romandie, more competitive results.

I hate to call anyone names, but this guy has to be called out. Only an idiot can make the correlation that Horner kicked anyone's behind in a time trial in which he lost over 4 minutes to the eventual winner in a race that happened three years ago. As if such a result has any relevance today.

That just falls into a new category of stupid.

Oh and BTW....Horner kicked Piti's keester in the 2007 TdF Albi TT

1 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Astana 1.06.34 (48.661 km/h)
2 Cadel Evans (Aus) Predictor - Lotto 1.14
3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) Astana 1.39
4 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Astana 1.44
5 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Cofidis - Le Crédit 2.14
6 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel Team 2.16
7 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Discovery Channel Team 2.18
.
11 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 2.55
. 3.23
20 David Millar (GBr) Saunier Duval - Prodir 3.27
.
30 Chris Horner (USA) Predictor - Lotto 4.21
.
.
36 Jens Voigt (Ger) Team CSC 4.57
.
47 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne 6.08
.
49 Bert Grabsch (Ger) T-Mobile Team 6.12
.
66 Pierrick Fedrigo (Fra) Bouygues Telecom 7.24
.
.

107 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Team CSC 8.45

 

[Polish]

I hate to call anyone names, but this guy has to be called out. Only an idiot can make the correlation that Horner kicked anyone's behind in a time trial in which he lost over 4 minutes to the eventual winner in a race that happened three years ago. As if such a result has any relevance today.

That just falls into a new category of stupid.

Analyzing Horner's TT performance versus Valverde is irrelevant today?
I'm sorry Eugene, but it IS relevant. ESPECIALLY relevant today.

I will agree with you on the stupid part, however

 

[karlboss]

I hate to call anyone names, but this guy has to be called out. Only an idiot can make the correlation that Horner kicked anyone's behind in a time trial in which he lost over 4 minutes to the eventual winner in a race that happened three years ago. As if such a result has any relevance today.

That just falls into a new category of stupid.

My point was polish was trolling. Well it seems i forgot the tone of text again, have to use more smilies. Head to head TT results when both riders are mid field GC and mid field in the TT have about as much relevance as who finished ahead of who in the grupetto. My examples were "more" competitive than the the TDF TT quoted, but of equally little relevance.

Polish, I love you too.

 

[karlboss]

I hate to call anyone names, but this guy has to be called out. Only an idiot can make the correlation that Horner kicked anyone's behind in a time trial in which he lost over 4 minutes to the eventual winner in a race that happened three years ago. As if such a result has any relevance today.

That just falls into a new category of stupid.

I'm a fairly moderate guy, so I wouldn't claim any asses were kicked. He Beat valverde by 2 seconds, another reason I wouldn't have claimed an *** kicking, 2006 is 4 years ago not 3 he finished the Romandie time trial 1 minute down not 4, and finished the race 1:50 down in 7th while Valverde finished 3rd. So both were contending for GC position. Even though it is 4 years ago I'd say it is more relevant than in the tour TT where he actually did finish 4 minutes down on the stage, that was my point.

However if you choose to take something more from it, you may. At least get your numbers right.

Polish...I love you too

 

[Mellow Velo]

Why was that?

He started out with FDJ, back in the 90's but failed to adjust.(maybe RR knows more about the specifics)
Came back to the US and won a lot of his home races.
Rode for 4 US teams, before going to Saunier Duval, in 2005.
It was his purple patch, in terms of success/form, until the recent step up in form.

So, Bianchigirl is correct in her assessment of his European career, unless you count the US pro scene as being the upper echelons of the sport.

He only came to my attention, at that 2005 Swiss race. One could only sit up and take notice, when he solo'd to that stage win. He earned my admiration.

However, we are 5 seasons on.

I'm interested by the fact that RR has no issue with this particular 38YO riding to such a high level, considering so many of the young guns in opposition are coming into form for the Ardennes classics.
Yet the other 38YO has no chance, against many of the same riders.

 

[python]

i never followed horner until he showed up in europe. seemed like a talented enough rider to be considered a good domestique. if anything, i was paying more attention to his candid and entertaining statements.then i read in dan coyles book that armstrong was concerned with horner beating him in a us domestic (time trial ?) race (don’t recall the details). that got me thinking.

anyway, his performance yesterday seems out of line with his cv but I respect it. what got me more negative on him was his loose tongue. he easily shifted from dropping doping suspicions on armstrong to spreading his lies. that smells in my book but as a rider and a writer he certainly is interesting.

 

[bianchigirl]

I'm always interested by riders who perform particularly well on known doping teams And I am surprised that Horner gets a pass in certain quarters when his contemporary doesn't - after all, even I would argue that the World's win against the best of the pros might be more indicative of talent than any number of US domestic races

Cerebrus, python as ever I agree - Horner is clearly motivated by the money and his scruples about Armstrong's performances seem to have been all too easily bought.

 

[Race Radio]

I'm always interested by riders who perform particularly well on known doping teams And I am surprised that Horner gets a pass in certain quarters when his contemporary doesn't - after all, even I would argue that the World's win against the best of the pros might be more indicative of talent than any number of US domestic races

Cerebrus, python as ever I agree - Horner is clearly motivated by the money and his scruples about Armstrong's performances seem to have been all too easily bought.

I am not saying that Chris is riding on water alone but he has shown that he has this ability from a young age. A combo of bad luck and poor decisions have limited evidence of this to the years he dominated the US peloton and a few flashes of brilliance in between crashes and working for others. Beyond some good top 10 results in one days he was 15th in his first Tour while working hard for his leader

 

[luckyboy]

The fact of the matter is that he was racing against someone who shouldn't be there. I don't think the doping question is one that needs to be asked after a major race anyway as the answer is, in most cases, the same.

 

[Berzin]

The fact of the matter is that he was racing against someone who shouldn't be there. I don't think the doping question is one that needs to be asked after a major race anyway as the answer is, in most cases, the same.

Racing against someone who should be banned but hasn't is just as strange as racing against someone who is having an athletic renaissance at age 38.

I'm not saying Horner was never a good racer, but this performance 10 years earlier would have been much more plausible.

It's a solid win for Horner, but still in all it's BS all around.

I'm a fairly moderate guy, so I wouldn't claim any asses were kicked. He Beat valverde by 2 seconds, another reason I wouldn't have claimed an *** kicking, 2006 is 4 years ago not 3 he finished the Romandie time trial 1 minute down not 4, and finished the race 1:50 down in 7th while Valverde finished 3rd. So both were contending for GC position. Even though it is 4 years ago I'd say it is more relevant than in the tour TT where he actually did finish 4 minutes down on the stage, that was my point.

However if you choose to take something more from it, you may. At least get your numbers right.

The numbers presented were not my numbers. So who are you talking about?

The numbers for the top riders posted by Polish are flawed, as he listed Vino and Rasmussen in the results the year they were both disqualified.

A mistake anyone can make, but I will set you straight on one thing-It's not my job to be a fact-checker for a troll. So before getting snippy, take better aim at who you admonish before making comments.

As for the rest of your comment, it makes no sense whatsoever. Type a cohesive statement then maybe I can follow your reasoning.

 

[karlboss]

Racing against someone who should be banned but hasn't is just as strange as racing against someone who is having an athletic renaissance at age 38.

I'm not saying Horner was never a good racer, but this performance 10 years earlier would have been much more plausible.

It's a solid win for Horner, but still in all it's BS all around.



The numbers presented were not my numbers. So who are you talking about?

The numbers for the top riders posted by Polish are flawed, as he listed Vino and Rasmussen in the results the year they were both disqualified.

A mistake anyone can make, but I will set you straight on one thing-It's not my job to be a fact-checker for a troll. So before getting snippy, take better aim at who you admonish before making comments.

As for the rest of your comment, it makes no sense whatsoever. Type a cohesive statement then maybe I can follow your reasoning.

My bad, i didn't know you were agreeing with me. So my quote in bold and a statement that "this guy needs to be called out" as stupid, I read differently. English isn't my first language...ok it is, I just don't read good.

 

[flicker]

I have newsprint out in the shed for the past 10 years that shows Horner has been top contender US/Continental last ten years particularly continental. Care to look?

 

[Oldman]

I'm always interested by riders who perform particularly well on known doping teams And I am surprised that Horner gets a pass in certain quarters when his contemporary doesn't - after all, even I would argue that the World's win against the best of the pros might be more indicative of talent than any number of US domestic races

Cerebrus, python as ever I agree - Horner is clearly motivated by the money and his scruples about Armstrong's performances seem to have been all too easily bought.

Everyone going on about any sudden surge in performance need to look at the type of guys in the TT: climbers. None are spectacular and that performance, as with the rest of it is within his talent limits. It's a one week race and he's done well to that distance.
As for his motivation: he's got mouths to feed and no other prospects.

A little history: he won the first Olympic Road Trials race in Seattle, beating the entire Motorola squad on a hilly course and was immediately identified as a threat to team control by Lance/Carmichael. He was left off the squad in favor of a solid TT'er who would work for Lance. Motorola wouldn't make a pro offer to him so he left for F de J for several years and tried that venue clean. It clearly didn't suit him and he returned to the US where he, again; dominated. When he returned he got the results that netted him the contract supporting Evans. I'm sure Cadel regrets letting him go as he will miss that support again this year.
I hate to keep saying this but I've been in races with he and Lance. He was better then on any hilly race. He didn't get the big $ deal until he was willing to drink the Kool-aid and be subservient to LA. My biggest beef with LA is you are with him or you don't exist. Very bad of US cycling in the long run and pro cycling in genera.

 

[Berzin]

As for his motivation: he's got mouths to feed and no other prospects.

I hate to keep saying this but I've been in races with he and Lance. He was better then on any hilly race. He didn't get the big $ deal until he was willing to drink the Kool-aid and be subservient to LA. My biggest beef with LA is you are with him or you don't exist. Very bad of US cycling in the long run and pro cycling in general.

It was up to Horner to decide what team he wanted to ride for. No one put a gun to his head and said "sign or you'll be blackballed".

Saying Horner having mouths to feed as the reason why Horner decided to swallow his morals and sign with "The Devil" is sort of a a cop-out on his part. He could have stayed with Astana and not ridden for Lance at Radio Shack.

But he picked his side and he went with it.

 

[Oldman]

It was up to Horner to decide what team he wanted to ride for. No one put a gun to his head and said "sign or you'll be blackballed".

Saying Horner having mouths to feed as the reason why Horner decided to swallow his morals and sign with "The Devil" is sort of a a cop-out on his part. He could have stayed with Astana and not ridden for Lance at Radio Shack.

But he picked his side and he went with it.

No argument on his choices. He was already on the LA team via Astana, anyway. It was likely a matter of more money.
He's a nice guy off the bike as I'm sure many others are.

 

[kurtinsc]

It was up to Horner to decide what team he wanted to ride for. No one put a gun to his head and said "sign or you'll be blackballed".

Saying Horner having mouths to feed as the reason why Horner decided to swallow his morals and sign with "The Devil" is sort of a a cop-out on his part. He could have stayed with Astana and not ridden for Lance at Radio Shack.

But he picked his side and he went with it.

I'm guessing you also thought Wiggins should have stayed at Garmin and road as a GC contender at a leadout man salary.

The fact of the matter is that professional atheletes... are professionals. This is their job, and I really don't have a problem with them maneuvering for more money. They have a limited shelf life... they should do whatever is best for their career.

 

[thehog]

It was up to Horner to decide what team he wanted to ride for. No one put a gun to his head and said "sign or you'll be blackballed".

Saying Horner having mouths to feed as the reason why Horner decided to swallow his morals and sign with "The Devil" is sort of a a cop-out on his part. He could have stayed with Astana and not ridden for Lance at Radio Shack.

But he picked his side and he went with it.

I may have already been linked but Horner in a 2007 interview makes drug references to USPS. He stated that what they did was all down to organised doping and you'll never see it like that again. He laid the blame squarely at Bruyneel's feet for putting riders whom normally wouldn't have had access to such a high grade program being able to utlise the best in prepartion. He elludes to Hincapie at being Master Injector

 

[thehog]

I may have already been linked but Horner in a 2007 interview makes drug references to USPS. He stated that what they did was all down to organised doping and you'll never see it like that again. He laid the blame squarely at Bruyneel's feet for putting riders whom normally wouldn't have had access to such a high grade program being able to utlise the best in prepartion. He elludes to Hincapie at being Master Injector

ahhhhh can't edit on my iPhone. Anyway Hincapie was the mastro. When Horner was signed with Astana he magically "rephrased" his words and not spoke of it since.

I'll find the link.....

 

[thehog]

ahhhhh can't edit on my iPhone. Anyway Hincapie was the mastro. When Horner was signed with Astana he magically "rephrased" his words and not spoke of it since.

I'll find the link.....

It was a velonews interview for those who will link before me...