Wiggins speaks about drugs

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Jul 23, 2009
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TheGame said:
The liver cassoulet was purely an example. My point is, the increase is small, and a number of suggestions can satisfactorily explain it, diet, dehydration, many things. Many things can affect the HG levels, and the fluctuation was not enough to require further investigation by the UCI.

You may of course prefer the helicopter to a secret location theory; That is your choice.

What is important, is that whatever our views, they are backed up with judgement, and are informed.

Cleanliness is a very difficult thing to prove. It is far easier to raise suspicion and doubt. One of the cheif proponents of doubt on this thread, and on looking around the forum, a proponent of much of the diatribe towards Wiggins is Blackcat. Perhaps Mr Blackcat would like to explain to us all his motives, his reasoning, because much of what he perpetuates to be truth, and fact, is in fact borne out of something very different. Maybe it's time to ask him about that.
Not 100% sure who this guy is, but we've seen him before. Seems like an effort to write like an educated man, but it comes off as the sort of education you get from 60 seconds on Google. And he failed the "i before e except after c" lesson. Sure seems to know a lot about forum users for a newcomer. Trolling, incorrect facts, calling out other users... nothing to see here... ignore.
 
TheGame said:
Perhaps Mr Blackcat would like to explain to us all his motives, his reasoning, because much of what he perpetuates to be truth, and fact, is in fact borne out of something very different. Maybe it's time to ask him about that.
Perhaps you should just state your point ...
 

Dr. Maserati

BANNED
Jun 19, 2009
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TheGame said:
The liver cassoulet was purely an example. My point is, the increase is small, and a number of suggestions can satisfactorily explain it, diet, dehydration, many things. Many things can affect the HG levels, and the fluctuation was not enough to require further investigation by the UCI.

You may of course prefer the helicopter to a secret location theory; That is your choice.

What is important, is that whatever our views, they are backed up with judgment, and are informed.

Cleanliness is a very difficult thing to prove. It is far easier to raise suspicion and doubt. One of the chief proponents of doubt on this thread, and on looking around the forum, a proponent of much of the diatribe towards Wiggins is Blackcat. Perhaps Mr Blackcat would like to explain to us all his motives, his reasoning, because much of what he perpetuates to be truth, and fact, is in fact borne out of something very different. Maybe it's time to ask him about that.
So, the "liver cassoulet" was purely an example - so I am to assume your theories on Wiggans are just make believe?

I actually like what Wiggans has said and wanted to believe in him - however his actions appear to betray his words - the way he signed for Sky and his performance over the last year have shown a person who is ruthless and focused and that ethics carry little value.

Your biggest error was trying to call in to question the motives of posters who are critical of BW rather than answering the relevant questions..
As you have noted what is important is our views "are backed up with judgement, and are informed", more importantly....

BLACKCAT IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM - I AM!

I do not share Blkcats skepticism and do not believe all riders at the top tier are doped, however, due to the nature of ths sport - 90+ positives in 2009 - I/we (those who wish for a clean(er) sport) reserve the right to call in to question any performance that looks suspicious.

It should also be noted - the "helicopter" suggestion was only put forward by you - there are easier ways to transport blood and your 'grandiose' suggestion severely hinders your argument.


Bradley's numbers are suspicious and provoke comment - and at the time I gave him the benefit because of his prior history and the anti-doping comments he made.
Your contribution has lacked the reassurance I expected - and therefore I feel compelled to go through BWs history - as you pointed out "What is important, is that whatever our views, they are backed up with judgment, and are informed".

I hope you feel comfortable that you have exposed Bradley to this level of scrutiny.
 
Aug 16, 2009
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I have figgured it out. The Game is BPC's mum! He is mum has joined the forum to defend him and good for her I cant do it all on my own, swapping between this alias and my latest sock puppet is hard work, not to mention regestering all those new email addresses. Lets just say that ilovelancesbody01@hotmail.com is taken, I must be up to about ilovelancesbody100000000 by now!

Anyway, its good to know that BPC mum is on The Game, I never know when I'll need her services.

Oh yeah, wigans cant have doped, he speaks english, just like me.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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TheGame said:
The liver cassoulet was purely an example. My point is, the increase is small, and a number of suggestions can satisfactorily explain it, diet, dehydration, many things. Many things can affect the HG levels, and the fluctuation was not enough to require further investigation by the UCI.

You may of course prefer the helicopter to a secret location theory; That is your choice.

What is important, is that whatever our views, they are backed up with judgement, and are informed.

Cleanliness is a very difficult thing to prove. It is far easier to raise suspicion and doubt. One of the cheif proponents of doubt on this thread, and on looking around the forum, a proponent of much of the diatribe towards Wiggins is Blackcat. Perhaps Mr Blackcat would like to explain to us all his motives, his reasoning, because much of what he perpetuates to be truth, and fact, is in fact borne out of something very different. Maybe it's time to ask him about that.
hey TheGame.

I am for Wiggins now.

I was pis$ed off at the start, as riders profess to be clean their entire careers, and maintain a sham.

But Wiggins should compete on the same playing field, as Armstrong and Contador and Schleck. To deny him that would be churlish. I think he can make the podium this year, I am bullish on his potential. If you look at most of the opinion on the forum, they think he is going as$ backwards. I don't. I will put money on him making the podium.

Where do you think he will come this year. Anyhow, if the UCI gives you a pass, and it does not show up, it aint dopin'. It cant be, that is the qualifier the UCI will use.
 
In this month's Pro Cycling, Tylar Farrar said he lost weight a couple of years ago, in order to increase his performance in the mountains. But he lost power, so put the weight back on last year and the power came back.
Bradley loses weight, weight he didn't have to spare, and didn't lose any power. Strange....:rolleyes:
 
Jul 30, 2009
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Well there is quite a big difference between the kind of explosive peak power a sprinter needs, the 4 minute maximum of a pursuit rider, and the sustained threshold climbing of a grand tour GC rider*.

So you are comparing apples and oranges.

That said, I bet Wiggins 4 minute power now is down on when he was 100% focussed on pursuit and 85kg (quite a bit of upper body weight to lose there).

(*And let's be honest, all he has done so far is earn a spot near the back of the elite group. It's not like he has blown Contador off his wheel on a 10% grad.)
 
Winterfold said:
Well there is quite a big difference between the kind of explosive peak power a sprinter needs, the 4 minute maximum of a pursuit rider, and the sustained threshold climbing of a grand tour GC rider*.

So you are comparing apples and oranges.

That said, I bet Wiggins 4 minute power now is down on when he was 100% focussed on pursuit and 85kg (quite a bit of upper body weight to lose there).

(*And let's be honest, all he has done so far is earn a spot near the back of the elite group. It's not like he has blown Contador off his wheel on a 10% grad.)
From the starting point of the grupetto. That's some transformation.
Secondly, his Prologue results do no denote a rider who has lost much power. His TT and Prologue results are not down.
 
Jul 30, 2009
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Personally, I think there could be plausible motivation/belief/team orders reasons for that transformation.

However, this is pro cycling, so I have learned to accept/expect other reasons could also behind it...

Are you still prepared to believe that there is a chance, however slight, someone could get 4th clean?

I expect probably not, if you are prepared to equate the effect of a sprinter losing weight and how it affects his sprinting, with a pursuit rider losing weight and how it affects his GC chances...

PS your second comment is fair.
 
Winterfold said:
Personally, I think there could be plausible motivation/belief/team orders reasons for that transformation.

However, this is pro cycling, so I have learned to accept/expect other reasons could also behind it...

Are you still prepared to believe that there is a chance, however slight, someone could get 4th clean?

I expect probably not, if you are prepared to equate the effect of a sprinter losing weight and how it affects his sprinting, with a pursuit rider losing weight and how it affects his GC chances...

PS your second comment is fair.
Am not talking about his pursuit results. To suggest they would be different is merely speculation.
Secondly, I am not sure if it is possible to come fourth, in a Grand Tour clean. But it defies logic for a guy in his late 20s to be transformed from a grupetto rider, to suddnely climbing with the best in the world. And to put it down to weight loss, when, one would expect a loss of power in Prologues and short TTs, is again not plausible. Reading Farrar's interview again brought home to me how Wiggins has got away with not really being questioned by hte media. If Bradley McGee had done it, how would you be reacting then?
Being Irish, the biggest lesson one can garner from Michelle Smith, is a drastic sudden improvement late in a career. This is serious alarm bell time. In 2007, he was textin Kimmage about even making it to Paris. In May of last year, he was climbing with the Grupetto in the Giro. Unless you're carrying serious fat, then losing weight, which is often muscle, comes at a price, in some way shape or form.
In summation, if Bradley lost this weight, a loss of power should be evident in Prologues and short TTs. None is evident. If Fabian started climbing moutains like the best in the world, came fourth, put it down to weight loss, yet was still churning out the same TT results....one would surely be entitled to ask questions. How can a rider lose so much weight (supposedly) and not lose power?
 
Digger said:
Am not talking about his pursuit results. To suggest they would be different is merely speculation.
Secondly, I am not sure if it is possible to come fourth, in a Grand Tour clean. But it defies logic for a guy in his late 20s to be transformed from a grupetto rider, to suddnely climbing with the best in the world. And to put it down to weight loss, when, one would expect a loss of power in Prologues and short TTs, is again not plausible. Reading Farrar's interview again brought home to me how Wiggins has got away with not really being questioned by hte media. If Bradley McGee had done it, how would you be reacting then?
Being Irish, the biggest lesson one can garner from Michelle Smith, is a drastic sudden improvement late in a career. This is serious alarm bell time. In 2007, he was textin Kimmage about even making it to Paris. In May of last year, he was climbing with the Grupetto in the Giro. Unless you're carrying serious fat, then losing weight, which is often muscle, comes at a price, in some way shape or form.
In summation, if Bradley lost this weight, a loss of power should be evident in Prologues and short TTs. None is evident. If Fabian started climbing moutains like the best in the world, came fourth, put it down to weight loss, yet was still churning out the same TT results....one would surely be entitled to ask questions. How can a rider lose so much weight (supposedly) and not lose power?
Inge de Bruijn, Flo Jo, Linford Christie, certain US swimmers, Chinese runners/swimmers in the early 90s etc etc.. all got faster at advanced stages of their careers. Amazing, that.
 
Nov 24, 2009
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Nick777 said:
Inge de Bruijn, Flo Jo, Linford Christie, certain US swimmers, Chinese runners/swimmers in the early 90s etc etc.. all got faster at advanced stages of their careers. Amazing, that.
Quite. Then there is Big Mig, LA, Berzin :eek: who became GT riders way later than natually...
 
Nov 17, 2009
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There's no way Wiggo was clean during Tour. I mean 4th, c'mon. And he somehow managed to lose all that fat when AICAR came around..
 
I've seen brads diet, his target was to lose fat and he did plus other dead weight so his power stayed the same and his weight came down without affecting his power. I think he is clean, there's a steady ride to becoming a road tour rider using the same dedication that he did to dominate on the track.
 
bobbins said:
I've seen brads diet, his target was to lose fat and he did plus other dead weight so his power stayed the same and his weight came down without affecting his power. I think he is clean, there's a steady ride to becoming a road tour rider using the same dedication that he did to dominate on the track.
:rolleyes:..............


And there was nothing steady about his progession from Grupetto to Tour top five.
 

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