Dr. Maserati
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pedaling squares said:He's on ignore. Anyone else want to bore him to (hopeful figure of speech) death?
TheGame said:The liver cassoulet was purely an example. My point is, the increase is small, and a number of suggestions can satisfactorily explain it, diet, dehydration, many things. Many things can affect the HG levels, and the fluctuation was not enough to require further investigation by the UCI.
You may of course prefer the helicopter to a secret location theory; That is your choice.
What is important, is that whatever our views, they are backed up with judgement, and are informed.
Cleanliness is a very difficult thing to prove. It is far easier to raise suspicion and doubt. One of the cheif proponents of doubt on this thread, and on looking around the forum, a proponent of much of the diatribe towards Wiggins is Blackcat. Perhaps Mr Blackcat would like to explain to us all his motives, his reasoning, because much of what he perpetuates to be truth, and fact, is in fact borne out of something very different. Maybe it's time to ask him about that.
TheGame said:Perhaps Mr Blackcat would like to explain to us all his motives, his reasoning, because much of what he perpetuates to be truth, and fact, is in fact borne out of something very different. Maybe it's time to ask him about that.
A link to an abstract that seems to cast doubt on the effectiveness of using the "off-score" to indicate blood manipulation.TheGame said:A very good point my friend.
TG
TheGame said:The liver cassoulet was purely an example. My point is, the increase is small, and a number of suggestions can satisfactorily explain it, diet, dehydration, many things. Many things can affect the HG levels, and the fluctuation was not enough to require further investigation by the UCI.
You may of course prefer the helicopter to a secret location theory; That is your choice.
What is important, is that whatever our views, they are backed up with judgment, and are informed.
Cleanliness is a very difficult thing to prove. It is far easier to raise suspicion and doubt. One of the chief proponents of doubt on this thread, and on looking around the forum, a proponent of much of the diatribe towards Wiggins is Blackcat. Perhaps Mr Blackcat would like to explain to us all his motives, his reasoning, because much of what he perpetuates to be truth, and fact, is in fact borne out of something very different. Maybe it's time to ask him about that.
Dunedain said:A link to an abstract that seems to cast doubt on the effectiveness of using the "off-score" to indicate blood manipulation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20127125
hey TheGame.TheGame said:The liver cassoulet was purely an example. My point is, the increase is small, and a number of suggestions can satisfactorily explain it, diet, dehydration, many things. Many things can affect the HG levels, and the fluctuation was not enough to require further investigation by the UCI.
You may of course prefer the helicopter to a secret location theory; That is your choice.
What is important, is that whatever our views, they are backed up with judgement, and are informed.
Cleanliness is a very difficult thing to prove. It is far easier to raise suspicion and doubt. One of the cheif proponents of doubt on this thread, and on looking around the forum, a proponent of much of the diatribe towards Wiggins is Blackcat. Perhaps Mr Blackcat would like to explain to us all his motives, his reasoning, because much of what he perpetuates to be truth, and fact, is in fact borne out of something very different. Maybe it's time to ask him about that.
Winterfold said:Well there is quite a big difference between the kind of explosive peak power a sprinter needs, the 4 minute maximum of a pursuit rider, and the sustained threshold climbing of a grand tour GC rider*.
So you are comparing apples and oranges.
That said, I bet Wiggins 4 minute power now is down on when he was 100% focussed on pursuit and 85kg (quite a bit of upper body weight to lose there).
(*And let's be honest, all he has done so far is earn a spot near the back of the elite group. It's not like he has blown Contador off his wheel on a 10% grad.)
Winterfold said:Personally, I think there could be plausible motivation/belief/team orders reasons for that transformation.
However, this is pro cycling, so I have learned to accept/expect other reasons could also behind it...
Are you still prepared to believe that there is a chance, however slight, someone could get 4th clean?
I expect probably not, if you are prepared to equate the effect of a sprinter losing weight and how it affects his sprinting, with a pursuit rider losing weight and how it affects his GC chances...
PS your second comment is fair.
Digger said:Am not talking about his pursuit results. To suggest they would be different is merely speculation.
Secondly, I am not sure if it is possible to come fourth, in a Grand Tour clean. But it defies logic for a guy in his late 20s to be transformed from a grupetto rider, to suddnely climbing with the best in the world. And to put it down to weight loss, when, one would expect a loss of power in Prologues and short TTs, is again not plausible. Reading Farrar's interview again brought home to me how Wiggins has got away with not really being questioned by hte media. If Bradley McGee had done it, how would you be reacting then?
Being Irish, the biggest lesson one can garner from Michelle Smith, is a drastic sudden improvement late in a career. This is serious alarm bell time. In 2007, he was textin Kimmage about even making it to Paris. In May of last year, he was climbing with the Grupetto in the Giro. Unless you're carrying serious fat, then losing weight, which is often muscle, comes at a price, in some way shape or form.
In summation, if Bradley lost this weight, a loss of power should be evident in Prologues and short TTs. None is evident. If Fabian started climbing moutains like the best in the world, came fourth, put it down to weight loss, yet was still churning out the same TT results....one would surely be entitled to ask questions. How can a rider lose so much weight (supposedly) and not lose power?
Nick777 said:Inge de Bruijn, Flo Jo, Linford Christie, certain US swimmers, Chinese runners/swimmers in the early 90s etc etc.. all got faster at advanced stages of their careers. Amazing, that.
wattage said:There's no way Wiggo was clean during Tour. I mean 4th, c'mon. And he somehow managed to lose all that fat when AICAR came around..
bobbins said:I've seen brads diet, his target was to lose fat and he did plus other dead weight so his power stayed the same and his weight came down without affecting his power. I think he is clean, there's a steady ride to becoming a road tour rider using the same dedication that he did to dominate on the track.