Teams & Riders Froome Talk Only

[wendybnt]

It won't even come to that. Sky will never release the necessary data, it just isn't going to happen. They won't even talk about it because nobody will ask about it until next July, and by then it will be forgotten.

 

[thehog]

Looks like Froome's drug of choice is popular.

said he and former teammates Daniel Kerr and Ben Cousins took huge amounts of the asthma drug prednisone

FORMER West Coast star Daniel Chick has revealed that a toxic culture of illicit drug use was rife within the Eagles’ 2006 AFL premiership-winning team.

The revelations emerged just three days before the AFL grand final, the Eagles’ first since winning the flag nine years ago after beating the Sydney Swans by a single point.

Chick claimed in the Herald Sun on Thursday that he and former teammates Daniel Kerr and Ben Cousins took massive doses of asthma drug prednisone in a pattern experts describe as bizarre and inappropriate.

He revealed in the report that a club staffer hid certain players from drug testers, that a former Eagles figure dished out sedatives in bulk to players and that the use of cocaine, ecstasy and methamphetamine were widespread in the squad.

Chick also said some players would snort crushed Xanax and take Valium with vodka to relax on flights to and from Perth.

Prednisone use is banned under anti-doping rules, unless cleared by a special ASADA medical committee. Chick said Cousins, Kerr, and himself, who were asthmatic, had this approval.

However, he would only ever take the drug during the season, on game days, and with other stimulants.

“I couldn’t even sit still on the bench,” Chick said.

“I started taking the 20mgs and 5mgs tablets on game day but then it escalated up to 40 to 50mgs quickly.

“It smashes your system. I’ve since read a lot about it, we didn’t know what was done to us. You feel bulletproof basically. “Even the next day or two you wouldn’t feel knocks but by Wednesday you flatten out and it is hard to get going again. Once you are in that cycle it was like an addiction.”

Chick said he’d gone public with the story as he wanted senior figures to be made more accountable for their players’ health. “What went on at West Coast is due to lack of leadership from the top down,” he said.

“Players’ health should be more important than protecting the brand ... I don’t think the premiership is tainted but it came at too high a price.”

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yeah that's a bit of a jolt given the Essendon fiasco.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Yeah that's a bit of a jolt given the Essendon fiasco.

I feel sorry for a lot of those guys at the Eagles.

Matt Barber who was also coaching Dean Capobianco who was busted for steroids twice in sprinting was their weight coach. They got very big in the mid 90's in the space of one year and fast!

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Yeah that's a bit of a jolt given the Essendon fiasco.

I feel sorry for a lot of those guys at the Eagles.

Matt Barber who was also coaching Dean Capobianco who was busted for steroids twice in sprinting was their weight coach. They got very big in the mid 90's in the space of one year and fast!

Interestingly there was a bit of a groundswell in the junior ranks against the drug culture that was in the Eagles at the time. A number of the younger players suggested that they weren't going to renew if things didn't change, resulting in the Cousins move to Richmond.

Cousins is messed up for life now, I can't see a happy end for him. Too many of the wrong people took advantage of him from a very young age and he was too naïve to see it

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Yeah that's a bit of a jolt given the Essendon fiasco.

I feel sorry for a lot of those guys at the Eagles.

Matt Barber who was also coaching Dean Capobianco who was busted for steroids twice in sprinting was their weight coach. They got very big in the mid 90's in the space of one year and fast!

Interestingly there was a bit of a groundswell in the junior ranks against the drug culture that was in the Eagles at the time. A number of the younger players suggested that they weren't going to renew if things didn't change, resulting in the Cousins move to Richmond.

Cousins is messed up for life now, I can't see a happy end for him. Too many of the wrong people took advantage of him from a very young age and he was too naïve to see it

Cuz now has servere mental problems. He was caught in a slow speed police chase thinking the mafia were after his family. He was on prednisone from age 17. The way he used to smash through the packs with no fear was a sight to behold. But all that talent mixed with a no fear drug took its toll. 90% of the team was loaded and had a secondary drug problem outside the club. $900,000 a year at age 21 will do that. Very sad indeed.

Chick lost his wife and hasn't seen his kids in years and is broke. Mainwearing OD'd, Turely got out and went backpacking for 10 years, some are now involved with underworld criminals. The list goes on...

 

[Digger]

Re: Re:

Yeah that's a bit of a jolt given the Essendon fiasco.

I feel sorry for a lot of those guys at the Eagles.

Matt Barber who was also coaching Dean Capobianco who was busted for steroids twice in sprinting was their weight coach. They got very big in the mid 90's in the space of one year and fast!

Interestingly there was a bit of a groundswell in the junior ranks against the drug culture that was in the Eagles at the time. A number of the younger players suggested that they weren't going to renew if things didn't change, resulting in the Cousins move to Richmond.

Cousins is messed up for life now, I can't see a happy end for him. Too many of the wrong people took advantage of him from a very young age and he was too naïve to see it

Cuz now has servere mental problems. He was caught in a slow speed police chase thinking the mafia were after his family. He was on prednisone from age 17. The way he used to smash through the packs with no fear was a sight to behold. But all that talent mixed with a no fear drug took its toll. 90% of the team was loaded and had a secondary drug problem outside the club. $900,000 a year at age 21 will do that. Very sad indeed.

Chick lost his wife and hasn't seen his kids in years and is broke. Mainwearing OD'd, Turely got out and went backpacking for 10 years, some are now involved with underworld criminals. The list goes on...

There is a picture of Cousins in his year with Richmond - the muscle and vascularity he had achieved in six months, from the time they had signed him in his year out to that point, was ridiculous.

I feel sorry for Cousins - it's not going to end well. So many efforts at getting clean. But like you said, he's been friends with well known criminals for years.
I've taken prednisone for two weeks and it's unreal. You'd go through a wall and mentally you are feeling it also - but when I finished the course of it all I wanted to do was sleep.

 

[motty89]

Re:

It won't even come to that. Sky will never release the necessary data, it just isn't going to happen. They won't even talk about it because nobody will ask about it until next July, and by then it will be forgotten.

^^This
Results will probably be filed away with the Leinders investigation...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-vague-on-leinders-investigation/

 

[wendybnt]

However.......


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/02/chris-froome-blood-samples-stored-ten-years


This could be interesting.

 

[mrhender]

Re:

However.......


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/02/chris-froome-blood-samples-stored-ten-years


This could be interesting.

Just to be sure I understand.

What is the interesting part?

All I read is a lot of if's, maybe's and could be's...

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

However.......


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/02/chris-froome-blood-samples-stored-ten-years


This could be interesting.

Just to be sure I understand.

What is the interesting part?

All I read is a lot of if's, maybe's and could be's...

About as interesting as when McQuaid was going to test the Giro samples for CERA, then he wasn't and then he never did...

UCI president Pat McQuaid drew a storm of criticism earlier this week when he seemed to indicate that he was against re-testing rider's doping control samples with newly developed tests. Cyclingnews sought clarification from McQuaid, who stated that the UCI does not oppose retesting if the circumstances are right.

"What I was asked is if the UCI are now going to test all of the samples of the Vuelta, all of the samples of the Giro, and all the samples of the 2007 Tour de France, because the AFLD retroactively tested samples from this year and found CERA there?" he said. "My answer was no to that.

"In principle, the UCI supports the idea of retroactive testing, and we always have done that. But it has got to be based on good information, either on suspicion in terms of [sudden] excellent performances, on information that would for example come from the biological passport, or information that will come from people in the field in relation to a particular individual. Then we would both target that individual, and also we would do some retroactive testing of samples which we might have."

McQuaid said that such retesting would require samples to be in good condition, and also to provide for a 'B' sample. He said that any testing undertaken for research purposes was off limits, due to the different handling involved. "If the sample was taken for research purposes, then you cannot test because the chain of custody and the protocol is completely different for the two types of samples. Therefore you can't use that to look into an anti-doping rule violation. All of this is quite complicated, and it is not something that you can just decide to take a blanket decision on."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-wants-2008-giro-samples-re-tested-for-cera/

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

However.......


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/02/chris-froome-blood-samples-stored-ten-years


This could be interesting.

Just to be sure I understand.

What is the interesting part?

All I read is a lot of if's, maybe's and could be's...

I didn't say it is interesting. I said it could be interesting.

All sorts of possibilities arise from this. Not least that WADA demand a retest.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Re: Re:

However.......


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/02/chris-froome-blood-samples-stored-ten-years


This could be interesting.

Just to be sure I understand.

What is the interesting part?

All I read is a lot of if's, maybe's and could be's...

I didn't say it is interesting. I said it could be interesting.

All sorts of possibilities arise from this. Not least that WADA demand a retest.

This will amount to nothing. The clowns running the UCI are too soft and incompetent.

 

[mrhender]

Re: Re:

However.......


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/02/chris-froome-blood-samples-stored-ten-years


This could be interesting.

Just to be sure I understand.

What is the interesting part?

All I read is a lot of if's, maybe's and could be's...

I didn't say it is interesting. I said it could be interesting.

All sorts of possibilities arise from this. Not least that WADA demand a retest.

Anything can/could be interesting.

Reading the article, and highlighting some of it below -I see very little potential.

in case retrospective analysis is required,

was subject to innuendo and allegation, all unsubstantiated

keen to guard against drug cheats if technology develops

The UCI, the CADF and the AFLD have agreed to keep the samples for potential retrospective analyses in the future

for potential retrospective analyses

Not that promising to me.
But I'am probably not too optimistic first place.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

However.......


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/02/chris-froome-blood-samples-stored-ten-years


This could be interesting.

Just to be sure I understand.

What is the interesting part?

All I read is a lot of if's, maybe's and could be's...

I didn't say it is interesting. I said it could be interesting.

All sorts of possibilities arise from this. Not least that WADA demand a retest.

This will amount to nothing. The clowns running the UCI are too soft and incompetent.

The usual Cookson posturing. He has let off more drugs users than any other president prior to him.

 

[wendybnt]

Strictly speaking the article is correct about allegations against Froome being unsubstantiated. Unsubstantiated means no material evidence to support the allegation has been provided. It doesn't mean the allegations are false, it just means there is, at present, nothing substantial enough to prove them. I think most of us here have our suspicions, but that is what they are at present. If the allegations had been substantiated then there would be nothing to talk about. It would be game over for Froome.

I find that in itself interesting as the implication is that retrospective testing could provide substance to the allegations. I notice that it isn't just the UCI that are holding samples, but a positive move would be for the UCI to surrender their samples to a truly independent body. As for technology developing, we had nearly 15 years of rampant EPO use before a test was developed, and yet a test was developed and people were caught. Armstrong was identified in retrospective tests......not much use as he had already been charged, but at least it shows the potential.

I understand the cynicism, however.

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

However.......


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/02/chris-froome-blood-samples-stored-ten-years


This could be interesting.

Just to be sure I understand.

What is the interesting part?

All I read is a lot of if's, maybe's and could be's...

I didn't say it is interesting. I said it could be interesting.

All sorts of possibilities arise from this. Not least that WADA demand a retest.

This will amount to nothing. The clowns running the UCI are too soft and incompetent.

The usual Cookson posturing. He has let off more drugs users than any other president prior to him.

I think that is true, but I wonder if it is more impotence than anything else. Deep down, we all know the clever and well-resourced cheats can't be caught.

At least not now....

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

However.......


http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/02/chris-froome-blood-samples-stored-ten-years


This could be interesting.

Just to be sure I understand.

What is the interesting part?

All I read is a lot of if's, maybe's and could be's...

I didn't say it is interesting. I said it could be interesting.

All sorts of possibilities arise from this. Not least that WADA demand a retest.

This will amount to nothing. The clowns running the UCI are too soft and incompetent.

The clowns running WADA are not anti-doping either.

 

[Benotti69]

If UCI were truly anti doping they would be retroactively testing samples continuously..............

 

[thehog]

Re:

If UCI were truly anti doping they would be retroactively testing samples continuously..............

It's funny how Cookson separates himself from the doping arm of the UCI except for *** announcements like this. He's all over it like a cheap suit. Creepy guy.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Anti-doping theatre.

*yawn*

Interesting? No. Catatonic coma inducing dribble? Pretty much.

 

[wendybnt]

Re: Re:

If UCI were truly anti doping they would be retroactively testing samples continuously..............

It's funny how Cookson separates himself from the doping arm of the UCI except for *** announcements like this. He's all over it like a cheap suit. Creepy guy.

I'm not sure that is entirely fair. His role seems pretty muted. Have a read of Shane Stoke's report:

http://cyclingtips.com.au/2015/10/samples-of-top-five-finishers-in-the-tour-de-france-to-be-retained-for-ten-years-for-possible-retesting-656-controls-carried-out-during-race/

Cookson isn't claiming this as his, he's lauding CADF and AFLD. Where I would take issue is with his claim of robustness. I think the only robustness will be with potential for retrospective testing. I know that is trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted, but I think it is the only real strength they have.

Collaboration has to be the way to go with anti-doping, not least because if three institutions are involved it lessens the effectiveness of one of them stifling unwelcome positives.

 

[wendybnt]

Re:

If UCI were truly anti doping they would be retroactively testing samples continuously..............

For what?

That is the whole point. They have already been tested for whatever the testers are able to test. No point retesting until the testing technology develops.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re: Re:

If UCI were truly anti doping they would be retroactively testing samples continuously..............

It's funny how Cookson separates himself from the doping arm of the UCI except for *** announcements like this. He's all over it like a cheap suit. Creepy guy.

This ... And he looked so cuddly when he replaced McQuaid ...

 

[danielovichdk2]

Why is David Walsh, as the anti-doping crusader he clearly is , not ask about the testing-data Froome presumably have done ?

Or anyone else for that matter ?

I don't get it. As far as I understand, Tom Dumoulin released data from at least a handful of TdF stages, why doesn't Froome follow suit here. It's a no-brainer really.