JV talks, sort of

[thehog]

I think Hesjedal should take a lie detector test. That should give him back some credibility if he doesn't fail it.

Perhaps he could just face the media rather than JV & his guard dogs on Twitter?

 

[the sceptic]

Perhaps he could just face the media rather than JV & his guard dogs on Twitter?

I agree. Perhaps he is afraid of the questions he might get?

But if the "more than 10 years ago" story is true, shouldnt he be eager to explain to everyone why he decided to stop doping and defending himself against people that dont believe his half assed confession?

This silence makes me believe his confession even less.

 

[thehog]

I agree. Perhaps he is afraid of the questions he might get?

But if the "more than 10 years ago" story is true, shouldnt he be eager to explain to everyone why he decided to stop doping and defending himself against people that dont believe his half assed confession?

This silence makes me believe his confession even less.

Correct. Because the first question would be.. did you dope at Phonak?

And his already dull personality wouldn't be able to conceal the bullsh1t of his response.

But cycling is moving forward, right?

And he was 100% truthful to the limited questions USADA asked him.

Fracking joke.

 

[ChrisE]

It's unfortunate vortex got banned as a result of this thread. I had a post all set for him this evening.

 

[thehog]

It's unfortunate vortex got banned as a result of this thread. I had a post all set for him this evening.

JV lost one of his guard dogs.

 

[red_flanders]

I think JV is honestly trying to change the sport and has given some riders who want to ride clean a place to do it. I thank him for that.

Sucks that he gets attacked as much or more than those who enable the doping.

 

[Big Doopie]

I think JV is honestly trying to change the sport and has given some riders who want to ride clean a place to do it. I thank him for that.

Sucks that he gets attacked as much or more than those who enable the doping.

I totally agree. In just three simple sentences. Thank you.

 

[IndianCyclist]

I think JV is honestly trying to change the sport and has given some riders who want to ride clean a place to do it. I thank him for that.

Sucks that he gets attacked as much or more than those who enable the doping.

True. But he also prides himself on keeping his shop clean and doesn't hesitate in telling it to the media and in fact probably rubs their noses with it. And suddenly he is found with crap in his backyard. Obviously the media is not going to miss this kind of opportunity. Pride goeth before a fall.

 

[Big Doopie]

True. But he also prides himself on keeping his shop clean and doesn't hesitate in telling it to the media and in fact probably rubs their noses with it. And suddenly he is found with crap in his backyard. Obviously the media is not going to miss this kind of opportunity. Pride goeth before a fall.

Really? Where did jv say that his riders never doped? And are you aware that any of jv's riders while at Garmin have actually doped? Please let us know the facts.

It really is ironic that so many here give jv so much criticism and claim without facts that he is lying. Meanwhile they're cheering on scarponi.

It truly boggles.

 

[thehog]

True. But he also prides himself on keeping his shop clean and doesn't hesitate in telling it to the media and in fact probably rubs their noses with it. And suddenly he is found with crap in his backyard. Obviously the media is not going to miss this kind of opportunity. Pride goeth before a fall.

He doesn't tell the media. He sells it for profit.

There are a lot of other teams whereby this is a matter of course to run it clean.

 

[MarkvW]

He doesn't tell the media. He sells it for profit.

There are a lot of other teams whereby this is a matter of course to run it clean.

Your third sentence is an item of faith, and I am a nonbeliever.

 

[thehog]

Your third sentence is an item of faith, and I am a nonbeliever.

Perhaps.

But there are teams where English is not the first language. The ones we never talk about.

FDJ being one. Cofidis another.

But yes you are right. There is still a severe amount of doping going on in Pro Cycling.

 

[red_flanders]

True. But he also prides himself on keeping his shop clean and doesn't hesitate in telling it to the media and in fact probably rubs their noses with it. And suddenly he is found with crap in his backyard. Obviously the media is not going to miss this kind of opportunity. Pride goeth before a fall.

I don't see him that way. I have never gotten the feel that he's rubbing anyone's noses in it or comes of as prideful at all. For me, quite the opposite.

It's funny, that's the feeling I get about Sky, but not Garmin. Go figure.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Really? Where did jv say that his riders never doped? And are you aware that any of jv's riders while at Garmin have actually doped?

I don't think many are making a claim like this though.

Regular readers of this thread have seen the JV1973 posts roughly summarized as he claims some insight into blood values and other test data and can somehow determine whether a former doper is clean before joining his squad. That is simultaneously ridiculous and possible.

Since this is pro cycling, it will take years after the SOL to find out some approximation of the truth. For now, JV and Co are clean, clean-ish, and doping at the same time.

 

[Benotti69]

I think JV is honestly trying to change the sport and has given some riders who want to ride clean a place to do it. I thank him for that.

Sucks that he gets attacked as much or more than those who enable the doping.

If JV wanted to change the sport he is going the wrong way about it. By continuing in the sport as a team is not going to change anything.

He should've sucked up to Pat and got a job in UCI HQ and found out all the goings on in Aigle and then blew it wide open. But there is no money in that.

Garmin from the outside of the sport are probably viewed as a doping team, by those who do not pay attention to the sport and only check in to the TdF in July. Not what JV wanted.

 

[skippy]

THis just in .

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...-dilemma-when-to-come-in-from-the-dark_308771

An excerpt :

" While Jonathan Vaughters at Garmin-Sharp has protected and encouraged his riders to cooperate with investigative bodies, and then backed them when they have confessed to past errors, that policy remains the exception. "

 

[sniper]

THis just in .

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...-dilemma-when-to-come-in-from-the-dark_308771

An excerpt :

" While Jonathan Vaughters at Garmin-Sharp has protected and encouraged his riders to cooperate with investigative bodies, and then backed them when they have confessed to past errors, that policy remains the exception. "

Garmin are the exception in that they have 7 or 8 former USPS employees and were thus compelled to cooperate with investigative bodies.
JV has played the media well to spin this in his favor.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Really? Where did jv say that his riders never doped? And are you aware that any of jv's riders while at Garmin have actually doped? Please let us know the facts.

It really is ironic that so many here give jv so much criticism and claim without facts that he is lying. Meanwhile they're cheering on scarponi.

It truly boggles.

He did not say that. I am not aware and i am also not saying that he is lying.

My point is not that.

Statement from Slipstream Sports:
We created Slipstream Sports because we wanted to create a team where cyclists could compete 100-percent clean. We understood cycling’s history and we were determined to create a different environment for riders; to give them a place to come where they did not have to make the difficult and heartbreaking choices of the past. We built our organization based on the core values of honesty, fairness and optimism. We built it on the belief in our ability to contribute to changing the sport’s future through a persistent commitment to the present. We implemented the most progressive independent anti-doping system in all of professional sport and the first-ever no-needle policy in professional cycling. We made anti-doping not just a strict policy and mission, but part of every conversation.



Today, we are very encouraged to see the incredible strides cycling has taken to clean itself up. But, while it is important to acknowledge pride in the fact that cycling has never been cleaner, we find ourselves at a critical moment in cycling’s evolution: confronting its history.

The founding concepts of Slipstream Sports were put in place for riders committed to competing clean during their time at Slipstream Sports. Every athlete who comes to us knows exactly who we are and what we stand for and when they come here, they make the choice to compete 100-percent clean.

While Christian, David and Tom made their mistakes the better part of a decade ago, they also made the choice to stop. To change what they were doing. To face the past, in their own way, and to start competing clean. In January 2008, they made another important choice — the choice to join our organization — because they believed in our mission and wanted a better future for the sport they love.

They have made another brave choice, to speak honestly and openly with the appropriate authorities, to confront their own pasts and cycling’s past and to accept the consequences, all in a continued effort to help the sport evolve.

Nothing can erase what has happened in cycling’s history, but we can learn from it. We can look back and say: never again. We can look forward to the crop of young athletes coming up not just on our team but also on other teams and have confidence that the future of the sport is here.

Slipstream Sports, the small team that took to the ProTour ranks in 2008 with a huge anti-doping mission, continues to help shape cycling’s future. We have consistently placed riders in the top 10 of the Tour de France every year since our inception, clean. In 2011, we won Paris-Roubaix, clean. We won our first grand tour in 2012, clean. We won the 2012 USA Pro Challenge, clean. But for Slipstream, it’s never been about winning. The real victory is showing the world that clean sport is a reality, and we are devoted to it. We firmly believe that these moments, and all the moments where we don’t win, but animate racing around the world, speak volumes about where the sport is today. Cycling has never been cleaner and we will work, every day, to help it continue to progress.

We support and believe in Christian, David and Tom, 100 percent. By coming forward and sharing their history, they have lived up to the promise that we as an organization made to the world when we founded Slipstream. We hope that fans and sponsors throughout the world can understand that despite the mistakes they made in their pasts, they are a critical part of the future. We hope you can believe, as we do, that this step, while painful, contributes to building a better future.

Please note the "clean" words. If that is not rubbing noses in "clean" then I'm cats' uncle. Also the "honesty" & "environment" means that Hesjedal should have come clean alongwith the other guys and spoken to the media about it. It could have become another feather in the cap for Garmin as PR. He was probably afraid that he would miss some racing or his Giro win would become tainted and so he didnot fess. So the world gets to know from Ras and naturally you have the result.
Ditto with SKY. If one of their riders comes up positive or is found to have doped in the past, then there is going to be a media storm of magnitude which would make the Garmin storm look like a mere breeze.
When somebody goes for zero tolerance then they should expect zero tolerance from anybody when the tolerance is greater than zero.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Perhaps.

But there are teams where English is not the first language. The ones we never talk about.

FDJ being one. Cofidis another.

But yes you are right. There is still a severe amount of doping going on in Pro Cycling.

I am not so sure as individual doping still takes place on those teams
FDJ- Offredo case
Cofidis - Remy di Gregario case.

 

[theyoungest]

I am not so sure as individual doping still takes place on those teams
FDJ- Offredo case
Cofidis - Remy di Gregario case.

Yeah, the two biggest doping cases in history. Both of them didn't amount to anything, basically.

It's just a fact that there are less soiled teams around than Garmin. The Vaughters spin on this is that Garmin just has a higher rate of transparency, but I call BS on that. When has a Garmin rider or DS ever voluntarily come forward and admitted to the public?

 

[mattghg]

When has a Garmin rider or DS ever voluntarily come forward and admitted to the public?

I guess you could point to Vaughters himself ...

(OK not a rider or DS but still)

 

[red_flanders]

If JV wanted to change the sport he is going the wrong way about it. By continuing in the sport as a team is not going to change anything.

He should've sucked up to Pat and got a job in UCI HQ and found out all the goings on in Aigle and then blew it wide open. But there is no money in that.

Garmin from the outside of the sport are probably viewed as a doping team, by those who do not pay attention to the sport and only check in to the TdF in July. Not what JV wanted.

I'm glad he's done what he's done. I have my doubts that your mole scenario is in any way realistic, to put it mildly. I don't find JV perfect, and I don't agree with every stance. I don't think the results are perfect and never expected they would be. But what he has done is more than most and I personally believe it came from the right place and has done good.

As far as money, it is many people's goal to make money in their field of interest of passion. Some say it's one way to never work a day in your life, to do what you love. Good for him for staying in the sport and making some money (can't imagine it's too much) along the way.

I just wish people would aim their venom at those who do nothing to help and much to harm the sport.

I think we should all give someone trying to help some room to breathe, whether or not we find their methods perfect. He's the one out there putting it on the line, not talking about cycling in a forum. Obviously, I respect that.

 

[red_flanders]

Yeah, the two biggest doping cases in history. Both of them didn't amount to anything, basically.

It's just a fact that there are less soiled teams around than Garmin. The Vaughters spin on this is that Garmin just has a higher rate of transparency, but I call BS on that. When has a Garmin rider or DS ever voluntarily come forward and admitted to the public?

Never, but when did that become the bar for success for Garmin?

Sure it would be great if someone had come out and given the whole truth, but I think it's completely unrealistic to expect it or hold Vaughters' feet to the fire because it has never happened.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

He doesn't tell the media. He sells it for profit.

There are a lot of other teams whereby this is a matter of course to run it clean.

If clean cycling is the future of the sport, it has to be made profitable. Doping was enabled for so long in part because it was more profitable; that won't be turned around without some in$entive

Perhaps.

But there are teams where English is not the first language. The ones we never talk about.

FDJ being one. Cofidis another.

But yes you are right. There is still a severe amount of doping going on in Pro Cycling.

Agreed. But one reason we do not talk about them is because they are not a catalyst for change. They may embody the vision, but not with the antagonism that Garmin/JV provides to cause changes. The fact that we don't talk about them shows that fact.

Like it or not, the PR spin, the pursuit of profit, and all other labels we have for JV and his program will serve more good for the sport in a transition to clean cycling

 

[pmcg76]

I am not so sure as individual doping still takes place on those teams
FDJ- Offredo case
Cofidis - Remy di Gregario case.

Well Offredo was a whereabouts violations(and a iffy one at that) and as of yet Di Gregorio seem's to be guilty of nothing more than breaking the no needle rule. At the time posters on here were talking as if his case was going to turn out to be some huge doping case with all these amazing products/doping doctors to be discovered.